Did TATV show a contempt for the characters and actors?

[Sakonna]

I drifted off from ENT in season 2 having never really connected to the characters. I came back to check out the finale, so in many ways I would be the perfect fan to respond positively to the TNG focus of it. And I still hated it!

All the right ingredients are there, but everything is in the wrong amount.

 

[Prax]

It seems as though many people who criticize TATV miss the point that it ISN'T the Finale. It was meant to be a send off for Trek in general(1987-2004), now going off the air indefinitely. ENT DOES have a Finale. It's called "Terra Prime." In fact, it aired on the SAME DAY as TATV. Terra Prime was named by some critics as the best episode in the whole series. It has all the feeling of a final conclusion for the show.

Here are the speeches at the beginning & End:

Demons(part 1)
SAMUELS: Having endured a catastrophic World War, Earth's governments came to this city for the purpose of creating a just and lasting peace among nations. Today, we have assembled here again, representatives of numerous worlds, to forge an unprecedented alliance. With this Coalition of Planets, we seek to strengthen our bonds of friendship, render permanent the peace that now exists among us for the ongoing exploration of our galaxy. Let us dedicate ourselves to these worthy goals so that future generations can look back upon this moment with pride and eternal gratitude. Thank you.

Terra Prime(part 2-ending)
SAMUELS: Fellow delegates, this last week we've seen what humans can be at their worst. But we cannot, we must not use that as an excuse to end the dream that began here. For then, the demons of our past will have won. Instead, I want to look to the future and begin by honouring the people responsible for our being here tonight. They represent all of us at our best.
ARCHER: Up until about a hundred years ago, there was one question that burned in every human, that made us study the stars and dream of traveling to them, Are we alone? Our generation is privileged to know the answer to that question. We are all explorers, driven to know what's over the horizon, what's beyond our own shores. And yet, the more I've experienced, the more I've learned that no matter how far we travel, or how fast we get there, the most profound discoveries are not necessarily beyond that next star. They're within us, woven into the threads that bind us, all of us, to each other. The final frontier begins in this hall. Let's explore it together.
(Soval rises to his feet and begins the applause. Then all the different representatives applaud)

 

[KennyB]

Okay so TATV which I haven't watched just yet is near universally maligned but Trek fandom. I vaguely understand its premise with the whole holedeck/Pegasus thing and Archer's speech and Trip's death.

While these parts were certainly controversial can someone explain to me how they demonstrate a hatred the writers had more the characters/actors/fans/show?

I don't think there was contempt there just really, really, REALLY, bad judgement...........Did I mention really bad judgement?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

No hatred, the writers just grossly overestimated the nostalgic value of the premise to Enterprise's remaining audience.

 

[Paradise City]

It was the finale. That last episode carried the Star Trek Enterprise logo and soundtrack. It was a Star Trek Enterprise episode. That's the salient issue, irrespective of some obscure backroom intent.

It wasn't willful contempt, no. Disrespect through thoughtlessness, yes.

 

[Prax]

It was the finale. That last episode carried the Star Trek Enterprise logo and soundtrack. It was a Star Trek Enterprise episode. That's the salient issue, irrespective of some obscure backroom intent.

It wasn't willful contempt, no. Disrespect through thoughtlessness, yes.

Yes, it was the finale of televised star trek, but not the finale of season 4 enterprise. It shouldn't be counted against ENT like "Ohhh, ENT had the worst finale of all the series...they had to have a TNG Episode, haha" Terra Prime very clearly and deliberately wraps up the show.

 

[Paradise City]

Yes, it was the finale of televised star trek, but not the finale of season 4 enterprise. It shouldn't be counted against ENT like "Ohhh, ENT had the worst finale of all the series...they had to have a TNG Episode, haha" Terra Prime very clearly and deliberately wraps up the show.

It carried the logo and soundtrack of Enterprise thus it was the Enterprise finale.

 

[Orac]

Why would the writers hate fans who wrote so many kind words about the show on the infranet during its run?

 

[Voth commando1]

Why would the writers hate fans who wrote so many kind words about the show on the infranet during its run?

I think the writers were shocked at just how vicious the fan response and hostility to the show was. Honestly if I were Brannon or Braga and I read some of the nasty stuff posted about Enterprise I would have come up with some fourth wall break to tell the fans to shut up or something.

 

[Prax]

It carried the logo and soundtrack of Enterprise thus it was the Enterprise finale.

Then it's an epilogue. People always said they wanted an episode/TV movie showing the Voyager crew back home doing earth stuff, and VOY fans never got that epilogue. So ENT did.

 

[Noname Given]

Then it's an epilogue. People always said they wanted an episode/TV movie showing the Voyager crew back home doing earth stuff, and VOY fans never got that epilogue. So ENT did.

I would have rather had the originally planned THIRD part of "Demons/Terra Prime" (yes Manny Coto originally had a 3 episode story planned - but when B&B chimed in they wanted to do the Final episode, Manny trimmed it to a two-part story.)

 

[arch101]

TATV shows B&B's contempt for the fans of Star Trek. They were mad that low fan support killed their gravy train so, taking the last show of the season away from the excellent Manny Coto, they proceeded to give a BIG middle finger to the remaining viewers. Killing off the most popular character on the show is the most obvious demonstration of this contempt. I can almost see them gleefully saying "we'll show THEM, those ungrateful cretins!" when they made the decision to kill Trip.Hey, I really like TNG, but, bringing it back as a frame for the show was a stupid waste of time. Terra Prime is the end of Enterprise. Watched TATV once when it first aired and never again.

 

[Kor]

Didn't Berman claim that TATV was supposed to be a valentine to the fans?

Kor

 

[Voth commando1]

Trek fans can be pretty mean and ungrateful though...

 

[Silvercrest]

It wasn't willful contempt, no. Disrespect through thoughtlessness, yes.

Six years later everyone is still at the exact same posts, no one's been promoted or even changed jobs on the ship? Did they really envision that for their characters? It's like an entire freaking crew made up of Harry Kim clones. Even Voyager mixed it up more than that.

Disrespect through thoughtlessness, definitely.

 

[Will M.]

Okay so TATV which I haven't watched just yet is near universally maligned but Trek fandom. I vaguely understand its premise with the whole holedeck/Pegasus thing and Archer's speech and Trip's death.

While these parts were certainly controversial can someone explain to me how they demonstrate a hatred the writers had more the characters/actors/fans/show?

It wasn't designed to be. Looking at the directors cut notes they called it a "love note" to Star Trek as a series. Having noted that I hated the episode as a send off. I was just starting to like the characters a bit more after the first season muckery and they cancelled and then ended it with a really bad episode that killed the series most entertaining character.

 

[Will M.]

Obviously, I am an official member of the Jonathan Frakes Fan Club, but I must say: I'm well-pleased that "he Adventures of Captain Riker" never went to series. I would not have wanted to see it and I know for a fact that Frakes would not have refused such an opportunity ... to my chagrin. Having an aging Captain was fine for TNG, but I don't want to see STAR TREK relying on that formulae. How about a Captain under 30, for a change? As well, I tend not to prefer "crossover" episodes, but it was - and is - so charming to see Frakes and Marina zipping up their uniforms, that it's a pleasure having them appear in -ENTERPRISE-. After all, Frakes has been in every other STAR TREK spin-off, so I kind of felt it was overdue, anyway ...

I'd prefer not to see a Captain under 30. The whole thing is too much for me to overcome as a suspension of disbelief issue and why I don't appreciate the new Star Trek movies with how they kicked off. It feels hoaky to me, granted I have a military background but you'd have to come up with one heck of a reason why someone so young would be made captain.

 

[Nyotarules]

Six years later everyone is still at the exact same posts, no one's been promoted or even changed jobs on the ship? Did they really envision that for their characters? It's like an entire freaking crew made up of Harry Kim clones. Even Voyager mixed it up more than that.

Disrespect through thoughtlessness, definitely.

Well Scotty, Bones, Uhura, and Chekov hung around Kirk for decades. Only Sulu and Spock escaped!

 

[Nyotarules]

I'd prefer not to see a Captain under 30. The whole thing is too much for me to overcome as a suspension of disbelief issue and why I don't appreciate the new Star Trek movies with how they kicked off. It feels hoaky to me, granted I have a military background but you'd have to come up with one heck of a reason why someone so young would be made captain.

I think I know the answer but would the military EVER promote a cadet to Captain as a publicity stunt or is the whole idea utterly and extremely ridiculous? And what did you think of the 'Kirk applies to be an Admiral after 3 years experience in deep space at age 29 going on 30' part of the plot in STB (I admit that made me laugh, and I'm an ignorant civilian).

 

[Shikarnov]

I think I know the answer but would the military EVER promote a cadet to Captain as a publicity stunt or is the whole idea utterly and extremely ridiculous? And what did you think of the 'Kirk applies to be an Admiral after 3 years experience in deep space at age 29 going on 30' part of the plot in STB (I admit that made me laugh, and I'm an ignorant civilian).

Given the way you put it, I guess I could see a young hero who'd shown exceptional valor being given a command of his own -- especially, in the case of the United States (with our actors and celebrity businessman presidents), for marketing and publicity.

But I would also like to think that command would not come with a six-grade promotion, nor would the posting be to one of the largest and most strategically important ships.

I believe TPTB would probably try to avoid holding such a person back by needlessly sending him back to the Academy or making him sweep the decks as a crewman, but also would understand that that he needs a chance to gain some experience to temper his initial fortune before trusting him with one of the fleet's greatest assets.