Star Wars Rebels Season Three (spoilers)

[Reverend]

She's the character from the Kanan/Hera backstory novel, right? I had the same thought at first, but it did seem this officer was too low-ranked to be her.

Yup.

I dunno, I kinda like the unspoken implication that the Empire is white-supremacist as well as human-supremacist. There's something nicely subversive and socially relevant about showing a richly diverse rebellion standing against a racist government and military.

I'm fine with it being allegorical, but it being quite literal seems a bit too on the nose for me. The idea of a "white race" of humans in the Star Wars galaxy just seems even more ludicrous than it does in the real world.

I can sort of see the speciesisum being more of a passive byproduct of the Imperial military being mostly drawn from the more core centric worlds, most of which seem to be human colonies. With those notable exceptions mostly being former Separatist systems widening the divide even further. Who knows, maybe some long standing snobbery (or even perception of elitism) of certain core worlds somewhat factored into the clone wars schism.

Add to that all the early ships and equipment being designed around an army of human clones and it's easy to see how there would be a reluctance to go out of their way to redesign standard patterns to accommodate the likes of Ithorians, Besalisk or even Twi'lek.

Just to be clear: I can see individual's within the military being racist or even sexist in some particularly backwards cases, but the organisation as a whole or even the Empire at large? I can't see Palpatine having much interest in such petty bigotry.

Also lets not forget that one of the most powerful figures within the Empire is a Chagrian and one of the Grand Admirals is a Chiss. I don't think they'd get anywhere near that position if the Empire was set-up specifically to keep non-humans down.

By the way, when was the Ghost crew on Geonosis before? I can't remember that.

Last season, when Zeb & Kallus got stranded on that ice moon.

Great episode. I waited the entire time for Saw to get poison gassed and it never happened! Didn't a RO tie in book say he got poisoned on Geonosis?!

He was in those tunnels for at lest two cycles (whatever that means) before the others showed up, which is ample time to unknowingly get exposed to trace amounts left in the environment. Plus, respiratory infections are notorious for having a delayed effect. It may have been days on months after leaving the planet before he started showing symptoms.

I also thought it was lame they went to Geonosis and nobody, not even Chopper, was able to translate Geonosian.

Why would Chopper be able to translate? He's a mechanic & navigator and Geonosians were an obscure, secretive race even before the Empire wiped them out, so it's not like anyone is going to have a need to learn their language (let alone be able to pronounce it!)

 

[Mr Light]

But they specifically went there to investigate the Geonosians. Even if you're convinced a single one didn't survive on the entire planet, what if you found holo-recordings from them? It just felt like an artificial plot hole to prevent them from learning about the Death Star this soon.

 

[Reverend]

But they specifically went there to investigate the Geonosians. Even if you're convinced a single one didn't survive on the entire planet, what if you found holo-recordings from them? It just felt like an artificial plot hole to prevent them from learning about the Death Star this soon.

No, they initially went there to investigate reports of Imperial activity and after docking with one of the seemingly abandoned assembly platforms to search for computer evidence, they were promptly ambushed. So not a good idea to stick around after that point. They didn't know the Geonosians had been wiped out until they arrived and did an initial scan. It was up to Saw's team to come back later and investigate further on the ground.

 

[Marc]

But they specifically went there to investigate the Geonosians. Even if you're convinced a single one didn't survive on the entire planet, what if you found holo-recordings from them? It just felt like an artificial plot hole to prevent them from learning about the Death Star this soon.

No I think they were sent to find out what happened to Saw's team as they would hopefully have the information on what happened on Geonosis and what the Empire had been doing there.

 

[Christopher]

I'm fine with it being allegorical, but it being quite literal seems a bit too on the nose for me. The idea of a "white race" of humans in the Star Wars galaxy just seems even more ludicrous than it does in the real world.

Well, it's never been a realistic universe to begin with, but it can be useful as allegory for the real world. I mean, look how up in arms the racists and sexists have gotten over The Force Awakens and Rogue One having gender and ethnic diversity among their heroes.

Also lets not forget that one of the most powerful figures within the Empire is a Chagrian and one of the Grand Admirals is a Chiss.

I'm guessing the Chiss are Thrawn's species, but I have no idea what a Chagrian is.

I don't think they'd get anywhere near that position if the Empire was set-up specifically to keep non-humans down.

There was actually at least one black officer in the Nazi military, I think. Exceptions do happen. I thought the whole idea behind Thrawn was that he was so exceptional that he managed to gain high status despite being nonhuman.

 

[The Wormhole]

For a second there, I thought they'd put Sloane in the episode, but then I remembered she's a Rear Admiral at this point.

I too got momentarily excited thinking the cruiser captain was Sloane before logic reminded me this would be too low a position for her at this time. Ah well, hopefully some day they'll add her. Still, a step in the right direction all the same, while the novels are adding plenty of female Imperial officers since Disney took over, there still haven't been many on screen, other than Governor Pryce.

I'm guessing the Chiss are Thrawn's species, but I have no idea what a Chagrian is.

Mas Amedda, who is second only to Palpatine, is a Chagrian.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Also lets not forget that one of the most powerful figures within the Empire is a Chagrian… I don't think they'd get anywhere near that position if the Empire was set-up specifically to keep non-humans down.

Didn't Emperor Palpatine replace both Mas Amedda and Sly Moore with exclusively all-human advisors by the time of RotJ? At least in the pre-Disney continuity.

 

[Ithekro]

Pre-Disney yes. Post-Disney, Mas Amedda is still in charge after the Emperor's death, but has very little idea what to do. He seems to be the one that was there for the treaty signing with the New Republic.

Sly Moore's canon fate is unknown after the birth of the Empire.

 

[Christopher]

Mas Amedda, who is second only to Palpatine, is a Chagrian.

Is he that green guy with the long, thin horns on top of his head?

 

[USS Firefly]

Wasn't he blue?

 

[Reverend]

Well, it's never been a realistic universe to begin with, but it can be useful as allegory for the real world. I mean, look how up in arms the racists and sexists have gotten over The Force Awakens and Rogue One having gender and ethnic diversity among their heroes.

1) Thank you, that's not something I need to look up. Well aware.
2) Literal ≠ Allegorical
3) Again, I said allegory is fine, but 1-to-1, not just human but straight-up white supremacists is waaaaay too on the nose. If people didn't pick up on the fascist overtones in both the OT and the PT, they clearly weren't paying very close attention. Making it explicit only serves to belabour the point.

There was actually at least one black officer in the Nazi military, I think. Exceptions do happen. I thought the whole idea behind Thrawn was that he was so exceptional that he managed to gain high status despite being nonhuman.

The thing is nothing in the story of Palpatine's rise to power or the Clone Wars implies any such racial agenda. No propaganda about "the alien menace", no segregation of the general population or anything of the sort. Palpatine is out for personal power, nothing else. He used fear of political turmoil and bureaucratic corruption to fuel the masses into handing him more and more power, not "aliens did it!". A brief glimpse at the average street crowd on Coruscant should give anyone a clear idea at how effective that message will be. You'd have a better chance starting a white pride rally at a Harlem street party...with much the same result.

The explicit racism and sexism is something the EU authors (mostly Kevin J. "lowest common denominator" Anderson IIRC) imposed after the fact and so far Disney have done well to steer clear of it. If nothing else, it inherently limits casting opportunities for real world actors if half the cast *has* to be white men.

Is he that green guy with the long, thin horns on top of his head?

He's this guy. Basically he's Smithers to Palpatine's Mr. Burns, which makes his reaction to Sidious's death all the more hilarious.

I too got momentarily excited thinking the cruiser captain was Sloane before logic reminded me this would be too low a position for her at this time. Ah well, hopefully some day they'll add her. Still, a step in the right direction all the same, while the novels are adding plenty of female Imperial officers since Disney took over, there still haven't been many on screen, other than Governor Pryce.

Technically Pryce isn't military. Like Tarkin her's is a government position, though I admit that splitting hairs since in a military dictatorship, the distinction is largely academic.
We do however have Phasma and I think one random Stormtrooper on Starkiller Base had a female voice, so there's certainly a trend. Oh and Armand Isard showed up in the 'Tarkin' novel, so there's a chance Ysanne may show up on Rebels in a season or two!

 

[Ithekro]

Military governors I believe is how the moffs and planetary governors of the Empire are described. They basically take as much power from the Senate as possible until the Death Star is completed, then get total control over their territories.

I did notice that the Rebellion is looking for hard evidence or even proof of the Empire's atrocities to hand over to the Senate.

 

[Reverend]

Military governors I believe is how the moffs and planetary governors of the Empire are described. They basically take as much power from the Senate as possible until the Death Star is completed, then get total control over their territories.

I did notice that the Rebellion is looking for hard evidence or even proof of the Empire's atrocities to hand over to the Senate.

As I understand it, the Moffs started out as "military governors" during the Clones Wars, ostensibly to oversee occupied Seperatist territories and see to the security of loyalist Republic worlds, but really at a practical level they were a way to de-fang the Senate, so that when the Republic became the Empire, the "military governors" became Moffs, or "regional governors", who oversaw Imperial interests in the local sectors.
To borrow terms from the American set-up, think of them being a federal authority, rather than an exclusively military one.

As I said, the difference in this sort of government is largely academic since a Moff probably has more military authority than most Generals or even Admirals. Indeed, the Grand Moffs even have direct authority over Grand Admirals. But still, the position itself is governmental not military. They answer to the Emperor directly, not the military chain of command. Not sure if the Ruling Council has any authority over the Moffs, but it would be just like a Sith to set up two parallel power bases to compete for the Emperor's favour.

By ANH I imagine the senate as a body is all but powerless, save for the collective influence they hold over their individual worlds. The Imperial Military is vast, but not near enough to occupy *every world* in the Empire if they all chose to rise up at once...which is more or less what happened after Alderaan.

It's never fully explored in the movies because that's not the focus of the story only the backdrop for the Skywalker saga, but after the Senate was dissolved and word got around about Alderaan, Yavin (and presumably Scarif?) thousands of systems would have been in open revolt and all pretence was dropped. The galaxy was in open civil war. Indeed according to the 'Twilight Company' novel the Alliance actually started invading worlds in the mid-rim right after Yavin, though quickly retreated when they became over extended and the Empire counter attacked.
By time of ESB it seems as though the bulk of Alliance forces were on the run, with the Imperial army mostly engaged in putting down civil revolts and the navy occupied trying to hunt down the rebel fleet and it's base. Indeed, it seems the Rebels had become accustomed to staying on the move since Yavin as they had barely got Echo Base up and running before packing up and evacuating in less than a day.

All through this I imagine the Moffs would have been acting as theatre commanders, taking orders and reporting directly to the Grand Moffs who in turn answered to the Emperor.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

I waited the entire time for Saw to get poison gassed and it never happened!

I was actually waiting for those mind-control worms from The Clone Wars to show up. I suppose they're a bit too grim for Disney XD to have them be an explicit part of the episode. But at least referencing that danger would certainly have amped up the tensions while our heroes were deep in the tunnels of Geonosis.

Also, I'm still fascinated that RO chose Saw Gerrera as the character to bring forward from The Clone Wars (which is why he gets an appearance in Rebels). The CW story was decent, but not exactly one of the most memorable. It's not that I don't agree with or don't like his inclusion (I'm actually ambivalent), but I really would like to have been a fly on the wall to hear the rationale as they had the discussions to include him (as opposed to any other CW character) in RO.

 

[Ithekro]

I think they wanted an older rebel mentor for Jyn and as the story was getting written someone pointed out that they already has someone who could be an old rebel in the form of Saw Gerrera, who's group was basically trained by the Republic and Jedi to be what some of the Rebel Alliance military was...insurgents.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Also, I'm still fascinated that RO chose Saw Gerrera as the character to bring forward from The Clone Wars (which is why he gets an appearance in Rebels). The CW story was decent, but not exactly one of the most memorable. It's not that I don't agree with or don't like his inclusion (I'm actually ambivalent), but I really would like to have been a fly on the wall to hear the rationale as they had the discussions to include him (as opposed to any other CW character) in RO.

Maybe because he was created by George Lucas?

Pablo Hidago said on The Star Wars Show
“He started off before that. George Lucas had him in mind for his live-action TV series that was in development, which ultimately never happened, but he found a place to put Saw into a story in Clone Wars,”

 

[Greylock Crescent]

^ I get all of that. And it's not like his inclusion is without merit (and I really do like that they brought a CW character into a theatrical release) ... I'm just curious about the discussions behind why his character was chosen, specifically. I mean, theoretically, they could have chosen Asajj Ventress (and written a story for why she joined the Alliance), or any other character who survived the CW series.

So why Saw Gererra? What was it about his character, specifically, that appealed to the production of RO? This isn't meant as a criticism, rather it's a genuine curiosity.

 

[Turtletrekker]

@Emperor's Prize -- I wasn't a fly on the wall, but perhaps it has to do with how Dave Filoni describes Saw-- as "The original rebel" and as "the beginning of what would eventually become the Rebel Alliance."

So, maybe his inclusion is to signify the long struggle and its cost. That the war didn't begin with the opening crawl of A New Hope, that the cause goes back decades and people have been dedicating their lives to that cause for a very long time.

Which brings up an interesting point. The mission to train local populations to resist the Separatists, of which Saw's world of Onderon was the first, was the brainchild of... Anakin Skywalker. If this is truly the case, then the Rebel Alliance owes it's very existence to... Darth Vader. The wheel, she turns and turns...

 

[Ithekro]

Considering the two parts of the Rebel Alliance, the military aspect and the political aspect are the designs of Luke and Leia's parents....the Rebellion was founded by the Skywalkers to be won by the Skywalkers.

Anakin starts the roots that would become the military tactics of the Rebellion via the insurgent on Onderon and Padme starts the political resistance to Palpatine, first with the Petition of the 2000, and then her suggestion to Bail Organa and Mon Mothma to lay low. Publically support Palpatine, but work in secret to undermine him. She founds what would become the Rebel's shadow government.

 

[kitik]

If this is truly the case, then the Rebel Alliance owes it's very existence to... Darth Vader.

The Chosen balance-bringer strikes again.

Man, if Palpatine would have seen how things really unfolded, he'd have been pissed!