War for the Planet of the Apes pre-release thread
- Thread starter JD
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That seems unlikely. It'd still take centuries for the "Planet of the Apes" to really emerge, for ape culture to spread and develop its own civilization and customs and architecture and forget the era of human rule. And again, I don't see why it's more desirable to remake the first movie than to tell new stories about the parts of the timeline we've never seen -- which, according to Matt Reeves's own statements, is what he's more interested in doing. (Rise was from a different director anyway, so even if its Icarus references were foreshadowing a long-term plan rather than just being wink-wink Easter eggs, there's no guarantee that Reeves shares that plan.)
I admit, I was a proponent for remaking the first one for a while, but after seeing the War trailer and reading the interviews, I think I'd rather get completely new stories than just a remake of the original. They've said the events of the original movie would be their end point, and I'd rather see this story continue than rush to that ending.
I'm not talking about remaking the first movie in exact detail beyond the general premise of astronauts returning to Earth to find it overrun with apes.
What's saying that apes will have their own distinctive architecture instead of just a hybrid of the existing but run-down human cities and their own wooden fortresses like in the previous film? What's saying it has to be set so far in the future that they have completely forgotten about human society? If anything, remembering the suffering humans inflicted upon them makes the dynamic of how they treat the emerging group of non-vocal human "primitives" more interesting. We don't need a carbon copy of the iconic but silly reveal that it was Earth all along when Taylor stumbles upon the Statue of Liberty, for instance, because any decent astronaut should have known what planet he was on the whole time. So concealing that it's Earth from the astronauts for the sake of a twist ending is not necessary to tell a compelling story.
There's clearly a compressed version of the events of the first film series going on, with human society being rapidly killed off by the Simian Flu (leaving a power vacuum for the apes to occupy), the little girl Nova exhibiting the non-speaking behavior of the humans in the originals, and the development in the film talked about by Reeves in his IGN interview after the recent trailer debuted:
“Caesar, his posse, and the girl discover what they initially think is a human deserter but it's actually another ape who is hiding. A little hermit ape played by Steve Zahn. He takes on the name Bad Ape. He is evidence of a larger world of apes because he's not one of them. He can speak. Basically what has happened is as the virus spread among the humans, it actually spread to other apes. Here is an ape from the Sierra Zoo who has learned how to speak. Caesar is stunned because this implies that there are apes out there all over the world that might be gaining intelligence. And yet they weren't raised as part of his community and so weren't instilled with Caesar's values, and so the implications are enormous. And Bad Ape as he calls himself -- and the reason he calls himself Bad Ape is because he was kept in a zoo and as he suddenly gained the ability to understand and to be able to speak, he listened to the humans to learn and they were constantly chiding him and saying ‘bad ape’ -- he's a really funny but heartbreaking character as Steve plays him. He refers to himself as Bad Ape because that's what his captors referred to him as.”
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/12...es-trailer-commentary-by-director-matt-reeves
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/12...es-trailer-commentary-by-director-matt-reeves
What took centuries to develop in the original films might only take decades in this one and be of a different nature from the originals. There will still be a worldwide ape society, just one that's a bit smaller in scope and not as advanced and architecturally and technologically distinct from its human predecessor.
The return of the Icarus mission simply represents an interesting way to insert new, non-primitive humans into the mix as the existing ones die out. And I'm not saying it has to happen in the next film, but I definitely do see things heading in that direction storywise.
I didn't say you were. I just meant, why remake that premise at all when we've already seen it, and when there are still so many more stories to tell in the current continuity?
After all, what makes this new series distinct from the original movie is that the original movie was Taylor's story, while this series is Caesar's story. The apes are the central characters in this version. That was true of the last three films in the original series, but not the first two. So I don't think the premise of the original film really fits into the current series. Not unless they retold it from the apes' point of view, I guess. But I'm more invested in the narrative of this new ape civilization and Caesar's role as its founding figure.
Not "will," but "should." Just having them live in run-down human cities would be boring. As I said, I'm interested in the story of how they build their own civilization. I want to see that civilization grow and evolve and develop its own culture. That's fascinating to me both as a student of history and as a fan of science fiction and alien worldbuilding. The question of what kind of civilization uplifted great apes might build in the absence of humanity is a fascinating one that I'd like to see explored. It would certainly give the production designers more opportunity for creativity than just having the apes squat in abandoned cities, and creativity is what we want from fiction, isn't it?
Because if you're talking about remaking the story of the original film, that's inherent in it. Taylor's existence is a threat to the ape dogma that apes have always ruled the world and are fundamentally superior to humans. The movie is an allegory about racial, political, and religious dogma and the way the powerful suppress truths that threaten their claims to power. If you're talking about a story where apes still remember that humans used to rule, that's a very different story. It seems like those are two distinct topics.
Yes, that is interesting, but throwing an astronaut into the mix just seems like a distraction from that, a non sequitur. It seems like an intrusion on the narrative that's naturally developing in the movies now. The original shouldn't be remade out of some sense of obligation. It should only be remade if it serves some good purpose within the current continuity.
Yes, obviously, but that doesn't require actually bringing Taylor back and redoing the plot of the first movie in some way. Those are just nods to the original mythos, bits and pieces that are fit into a new framework. It's hardly rare for a remake to include such touchstones and allusions. It certainly doesn't require them to recapitulate the entire story point by point.
And I cannot express to you how dull that sounds. What a waste of the amazing opportunities the new series offers -- just to reduce it to a stripped-down, half-assed copy of the original? That is a terrible idea. I have faith in the filmmakers to have a much, much better imagination than that.
Diplomatic as ever. I'll remind you that you said this when that development probably does occur and then you lecture everyone about how you thought it was obvious it would happen that way all along.
I'll remind you that you said this when that development probably does occur and then you lecture everyone about how you thought it was obvious it would happen that way all along.
Except, as I've said several times now, Matt Reeves has indicated that his intention is just the opposite -- to continue filling in the near-future story of Caesar (and, perhaps eventually, his son also played by Andy Serkis) rather than jumping forward to remake the original movie. So there's no reason to think a remake is probable, at least not while Reeves is in charge.
And if, say, Reeves were replaced by a less creative director who just went the dull, predictable route of remaking the original, I absolutely would not say it was obvious -- I would say it was disappointing. I've already told you that I find the direction the series is heading, the direction Reeves said he wants to go, far more fascinating than a rehash of the original film would be. What Rupert Wyatt, Matt Reeves, Andy Serkis, and their colleagues have created may be called Planet of the Apes, but it's something radically new and different from the previous franchise of that name, something genuinely compelling in its own right. Something that's taken the basic premise and approached it in a completely new way. I mean, think about it -- these are films where nonhuman performance-capture characters are the protagonists, so photorealistic and intricately created that they can carry an entire film and their performers can be legitimately considered the stars. That's something truly impressive, something that wouldn't have been possible just a few years ago. These films are doing something genuinely new and on the cutting edge. As I said, what these films are doing is fascinating to me as a student of history and as an SF fan, but it's also fascinating to me as a fan of visual effects and animation. I want them to push forward with what they're doing now. And I have reason to believe that they will.
I agree with Christopher, They created a interesting world and I cannot wait until the new movie
Yh
ey are coming out with a prequel novelization and a movie novelization
FYI: the covers for both the prequel (by Greg Keyes) and the novelization (by me) just went up on Amazon.
Thanks for the helpful links! By coincidence, I was making some final revisions to the novelization just last night.
Another great trailer. I have to admit Greg, I'm a jealous that you've gotten read the script.
I've been watching Cheers off and on for the last few years, so it's a little weird for me to see Woody Harrelson in such a dark role.
I'm assuming the chimp we saw them talking to must have been Steve Zahn's Bad Ape.
I knew from interviews that we would be getting some of the apes joining up The Colonel, so it was nice to see a bit of that in the trailer.
I've been watching Cheers off and on for the last few years, so it's a little weird for me to see Woody Harrelson in such a dark role.
I'm assuming the chimp we saw them talking to must have been Steve Zahn's Bad Ape.
I knew from interviews that we would be getting some of the apes joining up The Colonel, so it was nice to see a bit of that in the trailer.
The apes are looking and sounding more humanlike, presumably from the continued influence of the virus. I suppose the idea is that they're developing toward the hybrid humanoid-ape form they had in the original movies, or a CGI equivalent thereof (though wouldn't it be neat if some future movie put Andy Serkis in highly lifelike prosthetics). I dunno, though -- I'm not sure I'll find them as interesting if they become more human, more verbal. I found them very compelling in the second film, where they were still largely using sign language. There's something that gets me about stories whose characters use something other than normal speech to communicate, like an invented jargon or sign language. It intensifies the emotional impact somehow -- perhaps because I have to think about it more to interpret it, which makes it more internalized.
Great trailer. I loved the audio callbacks to the previous two films. We something like that in Dawn and I wonder if they'll something like that again in War.
Good to see more about the apes working with humans and the possible futility of working together. Once again, I'm really looking forward to this film, perhaps more than any other this year.
Good to see more about the apes working with humans and the possible futility of working together. Once again, I'm really looking forward to this film, perhaps more than any other this year.
I watched the trailer a second time and Caesar does the bulk of the talking, still in the slow rasping speech. The only other ape to speak is the small chimp (possibly Zahn's character) and his speech patterns are similar to Caesar's. Conversely, we see Maurice still speaking in sign language, with Nova, the little girl.
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