Spoilers Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - Grading & Discussion

[Reverend]

Random thought: am I the only one wondering what the GR-75's were supposed to do in the fleet battle? They're just cargo transports. Do they even have weaponry? I don't think I ever spotted one opening fire. I guess they may have been retrofitted to launch recovery shuttles for ejected pilots, or to rearm & refuel fighters mid-battle, but I didn't see either of those things happen either.
I know this applies to RotJ too since they were seen at Endor, so it's hardly any kind of mistake on Rogue One's part, but still I can't help wondering...

Somewhat related: after a second viewing, I'm seeing the Ghost in a lot more shots than I noticed the first time round. Hera (or maybe just Captain Wren by this point?) seems to be sticking close to Raddus's flagship. Even saw they taking out a few TIEs that strayed too close.

Also, I think it is mostly hollow, judging by the huge open reactor area in the Death Star II and the bit of the socket behind the laser dish we saw in this movie.
Should still generate a bot of it's own gravity but not as much as an actual small moon.

Yeah, if you look at the crossection, most of the interior volume is taken up by the power & support systems for the weapon. Indeed I think Catalyst mentions that most of the habitable spaces are on the surface shell. of course given the sheer scale of this thing, even that small portion of habitable area within the shell like the docking bays, detention centres and the like would still make up for a sizeable volume, probably more than all the Super Star Destroyers combined.
Have they ever said where the over bridge is located? I've always though of it as being somewhere buried deep but perhaps a surface structure similar to the Emperor's throne room would be more likely?

 

[Kemaiku]

I suppose, but it's still heavy enough to be unnverving seeing something that big move that fast.

 

[Ithekro]

The transports are there mostly for rescue and support of the fleet, that and leaving them behind is just and dangerous at taking them with the fleet, because if they leave behind ships to escort them, that is firepower they can't use against the Empire, and if they leave them alone, and any Imperial ship find them, they are finished.

Some of the GR-75s are armed, but very lightly. Wouldn't do much against a Star Destroyer and only might take out a TIE fighter if they get lucky with one of their four twin laser cannons.

Since they are basically container ships, they also could host a large number of armed containers and act as clunky makeshift bombers I suppose.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Real reason: 1983 visual effects limitations. In-universe reason: the Scarif shield only glowed blue when it was impacted by objects & weapons fire or interrupted by the gateway and we never saw anything impact the Endor shield.

I tend to agree - that being said, I think a small ship did crash into the shield by the Death Star when they realized IT [was] A TRAP. I don't recall if it glows blue at that point, but there's some kind of visible impact. They can polish it in the next home release

But I agree that the shield wasn't consistently glowing blue and, more importantly, Jedi had to keep the shield invisible until they realize the transmissions were being jammed because otherwise the rebels would know the shield was still operational.

 

[Reverend]

The transports are there mostly for rescue and support of the fleet, that and leaving them behind is just and dangerous at taking them with the fleet, because if they leave behind ships to escort them, that is firepower they can't use against the Empire, and if they leave them alone, and any Imperial ship find them, they are finished.

That's only a concern if the enemy knows where they are. If they're on the surface of Yavin 4 then surely they're as safe as the rest of the *secret* base, no?

Recovery operations seems the most likely as it would probably be equipped with a large cargo ramp somewhere along the bottom and harpoons for cargo handling.

I tend to agree - that being said, I think a small ship did crash into the shield by the Death Star when they realized IT [was] A TRAP. I don't recall if it glows blue at that point, but there's some kind of visible impact. They can polish it in the next home release

Just checked and nope. After the Falcon pulls up you just see a bunch of fighters (2 X-Wings, 2 A-Wings, 1 B-Wing & 1 Y-Wing) veer off and it cuts to a reverse shot of the fleet evading. I do recall an impact being described in the novelization, so perhaps that's what you're remembering?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

The irony here is that whoever drew this, probably spent more time on it than the 2 mins it took me to throw that simple diagram together.

It wasn't just "whomever." It was drawn by Randall Munroe as part of his decade-long web comic series xckd, which covers a wide range of topics including physics, computer science, mathematics, science-fiction (film, television, books), and so forth. He regularly mocks these kind of silly notions.

 

[Skywalker]

I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about this movie. I really, really liked the second half of it, but the first half of it was all over the place, the pacing was all off and there was way too much jumping around. I feel like things could have been condensed a bit, and either Saw Gerrera's role in the story needed to be expanded or he could have been excised completely without really losing anything significant. As it was he was just sort of there, and seemed to just be an excuse to get Jyn and Cassian to Jedha. Saw was militantly opposed to the Empire and even the rest of the Rebel Alliance considered his measures extreme, and he took in Jyn and cared for her for at least a while, yet Jyn doesn't seem to have any real opinion one way or the other on the Empire or the Rebellion. ("It doesn't matter [whose flag is flying] if you don't look up.") I don't mind her lack of caring--hell, Han Solo didn't really care about either side, himself--I just wish they'd done a better job of explaining her mentality.

I think that's my biggest beef with the movie: the characters were very thin. I enjoyed aspects of them; K-2SO was hilarious and Chirrut's Force-worshipping monk was fascinating. I dug Cassian's inner conflict in regards to his fighting for a free and peaceful galaxy while doing terrible things in order to achieve it (his immediate reaction to murdering his contact on the Ring of Kafrene was some excellent acting on Diego Luna's part). But it was all pretty surface-level, and Jyn's development from jaded loner to believer in the cause wasn't very convincing to me.

Ben Mendelsohn's Director Krennic was performed well (naturally--it's Ben Mendelsohn), but he wasn't a particularly effective villain. He spent most of the movie getting upstaged by Tarkin and Darth Vader, and ultimately never really seemed to pose much of a threat to Jyn and her team. He felt more like an occasional obstacle than a villain.

Some of the fanservice was a lot of fun and some of it was kind of gratuitous. I don't think we needed to see Evazan or Ponda Baba on Jedha, or C-3PO and R2-D2 on Yavin 4. It was surprisingly neat to see Jimmy Smits' Bail Organa again, though I kind of feel like considering he was about to get blown up along with the rest of Alderaan, they could have added a little more dramatic weight to his final scene. All of the various cameos like Red Leader and Gold Leader, the Ghost, and Chopper, were cool, and apparently the actor who dubbed over Denis Lawson's dialogue as Wedge in A New Hope also had an audio cameo, but I must have missed it. Darth Vader's scene at the very end was terrific. We've heard for forty years how dangerous Vader was, but it was nice to finally have a chance to see it.

It's pretty remarkable how far CGI has come; Tarkin looked amazing. Yeah, you could tell at times that it was CGI and not Peter Cushing in the flesh, but for the most part I was damn impressed. I agree the computer generated Leia wasn't quite as convincing, but she also wasn't on screen for very long, so it wasn't as noticeable for me.

Speaking of Leia, though, I agree with those who think they did somewhat fumble the means by which she received the Death Star plans. Dialogue in ANH implied to me that the Tantive IV received the plans from the Rebel fleet but wasn't actually active in the battle, because Leia was still operating under her cover as a member of the Imperial Senate. Placing the Tantive IV at Scarif implicates Leia directly and doesn't quite match up with what's presented to us in ANH. I think it might have worked better if the Tantive IV had arrived on the edge of the Scarif system during the battle, and Rebels aboard Admiral Raddus' flagship fought (and died horribly) to delay Darth Vader long enough for Raddus to transmit the plans from the surface on Scarif to Leia's ship, at which point she jumps to hyperspace, hoping they escaped unnoticed. But, hey, I'm just a fanboy, not a writer. The way they handled it was still fun to watch.

I gave it a B+. I'm not sure if I like it more than TFA or not. TFA's characters were far better but everything about the Starkiller seriously brings the movie down, and RO's third act is probably one of the best in the whole franchise.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Just checked and nope. After the Falcon pulls up you just see a bunch of fighters (2 X-Wings, 2 A-Wings, 1 B-Wing & 1 Y-Wing) veer off and it cuts to a reverse shot of the fleet evading. I do recall an impact being described in the novelization, so perhaps that's what you're remembering?

Definitely not the novelization that I'm remembering. Not sure if it's later in the battle. Of course, the big question is which version of the Return of the Jedi are we looking at. I'm not sure if it's different for the Special Edition vs. the original.

 

[Xerxes82]

Speaking of Leia, though, I agree with those who think they did somewhat fumble the means by which she received the Death Star plans. Dialogue in ANH implied to me that the Tantive IV received the plans from the Rebel fleet but wasn't actually active in the battle, because Leia was still operating under her cover as a member of the Imperial Senate. Placing the Tantive IV at Scarif implicates Leia directly and doesn't quite match up with what's presented to us in ANH.

I'm going to be honest, I've seen a bunch of posters mention this, but I don't get the complaint. If anything, what we see here ADDS to the scene in ANH. Vader is extra-special-super-pissed both because the plans have slipped through his fingers, and because he KNOWS FOR A FACT that everyone onboard the Tantive IV is lying their butts off. Every time somebody repeats that "consular ship/ambassadorial mission" line, it just further fuels his rage. He watched them flee the battle. He knows they're rebels. But they just keep lying to his face like he doesn't know better. Frankly, it's a much more interesting sequence of events now. Every time Leia tries to deny what she's doing, she's not holding to an otherwise innocuous cover story, she's lying the flimsiest of lies. But she keeps on doing it, in spite of the hell she's raining down on herself with every repetition, because the cause is just.

Also, it reflects just how serious the situation is. Leia may have had cover given her position in the Senate. But she's blown it completely, because the Death Star is just that big a threat. Names and titles and appearances no longer matter, only stopping this thing. Which was one of the points of Rogue One, really. That the game has changed, that there is no more sitting on the sidelines, no more hiding behind fears or maybes. This is the put up or shut up moment. Win or die. How much are you willing to risk and how strong, really, are your convictions?

 

[Reverend]

Definitely not the novelization that I'm remembering. Not sure if it's later in the battle. Of course, the big question is which version of the Return of the Jedi are we looking at. I'm not sure if it's different for the Special Edition vs. the original.

Well if you think so then all the footage is right there in that clip I linked. I've looked at it twice now and no dice. Logically it can only happen in those first few shots because after that, they're staying well away from the Death Star and once it starts shooting at them, they go even further away, towards the Imperial fleet. They only turn back around once the shield is down.

As for the SE's, I think this was one of those very few sequences that Lucas has never even touched.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Just saw it this afternoon. I give it an A+, and my jaw is still on the floor at the recasts. The gentleman playing Tarkin was perfect in looks and nearly perfect in voice. So was the lady who played Leia. That was amazing. I stayed during the credits to see if it was a CGI for Leia, but wow! The casting people were good!

 

[Samurai8472]

I was surprised to learn how they did Tarkin and Leia


The did a "Peggy Carter/Old Peggy Carter" trick.

They basically layer facial effects over an existing persons face

For "Winter Soldier" the old age parts were from a real actress that they layered onto Hayley Atwell

Disney/ILM must really like that technique now. They did it with Robert Downey Jr in "Civil War"

I like it. It's better than full CGI face which REALLY looks fake.

 

[Venardhi]

I think you're the one mistaken here. The plans get handed off to them from someone on the ship that Vader has boarded. They then escape. How else do you think they end up with the plans?

 

[Skywalker]

How is it clearly not Scarif? We see the Tantive IV disembarking from the docking bay of the Rebel flagship above Scarif, and Vader watches it fly away.

 

[Tosk]

What "again"? There is only one jump shown. The ship pulls away from Vader and flies off. The dude hands the plans to Leia. She says her line and we then jump to lightspeed. They were still near the planet.

 

[Ithekro]

Possibly the same jump again, one from Vader's point of view and the other from Leia's?

I don't recall the ship jumping to lightspeed in front of Vader's view.

 

[Venardhi]

By the will of the living force, that looks even worse than I remember. As soon as her face starts to move things go waaaaay south.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Here is an article about the cyber security of the Imperial from Slate. I liked reading the article.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2016/12/20/cybersecurity_experts_weigh_in_on_rogue_one.html

Here is another article about the original ending.

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-rogue-one-gareth-edwards-ending/

This sentence pisses me off. It is a reference to the killing of the characters.

We thought we weren't going to be allowed to but Kathy [Kennedy, President of Lucasfilm] and everyone at Disney were like 'Yeah it makes sense/ I guess they have to because they're not in A New Hope.'

So, you killed off the characters because they were never seen in another movie. Not because their deaths had a symbolic meaning or some other writing bs. How big again is the Star Wars universe?

 

[BeatleJWOL]

Names and titles and appearances no longer matter, only stopping this thing. Which was one of the points of Rogue One, really. That the game has changed, that there is no more sitting on the sidelines, no more hiding behind fears or maybes. This is the put up or shut up moment. Win or die. How much are you willing to risk and how strong, really, are your convictions?

That would be why Rogue One is, at least in subtext, a film with political meaning, Bob Iger be damned.

So, you killed off the characters because they were never seen in another movie. Not because their deaths had a symbolic meaning or some other writing bs.

Basically, yeah. Same reason some people get persnickity about prequels because "well how can the Xindi be some huge threat when we've never heard of them in any of the other series?" (just to use one example) and such.

 

[Ithekro]

The basic problem with anyone surviving is that it causes a logical problem. If anyone survived on the planet's surface, (say no Death Star in play) they would be captured and tortured to information about the Rebel's hidden base. If they survived and escaped, than why the hell didn't they get the plans to Yavin IV? Darth Vader is very specific about what he is after. He wants the plan they stole of the Death Star and he wants to find the Rebel's hidden base. Leia is now his only link to finding it. The base was far, far more important to Vader than the plans. If there was anyone else left alive at Scariff, Vader would have them.

If they escaped, why didn't they have the plans? Thus they can't have escaped.

The only way out would be if they managed to go into hiding on Scariff, and that just doesn't sell the story very well. If they managed to get away with the fleet but left the plans with Leia, why would they do that? Get all the way back, drop off the plans, say "may the Force be with you" and than board another ship and take off? Jyn wouldn't pawn that off on someone else without good reason, and most of those reasons involve Jyn dying horribly by a lightsaber once Vader catches up to her slower ship, while Leia's is the fast blockade runner.