The Man in the High Castle season 2

[sttngfan1701d]

^ I think the implication is that Frank died in the bombing, given the bookend-flashback thingy with him, Ed, and Juliana that featured in the episode. At least that's what I took from it.

An interesting tidbit, though. General Onoda, introduced this season as the new head honcho in the Pacific States, is meant to be the guy (actually a Lieutenant in real life) that's famous for hiding out in the Philippine jungle until 1974 because he never received an order to stand down and thought the war was still going on. I thought that was pretty cool.

Regarding the Greater Nazi Reich in the US, one thing I hope they explain in season 3 is how the ideology took hold in society so fast. In this universe, WW2 ended in 1947. The show currently takes place in November 1962. So that means that in 15 short years, a great portion of the US population accepted the Nazi outlook and it permeated every part of life. Since the Nazis of the show's universe have a significant technological advantage, I can understand the US surrendering. I can understand capitulation and living as a conquered people. But for the whole society to change like that in 15 years, where people sincerely believe these policies...I'd like to see that explored more in season 3.

Sort of how they gave us a flashback this season to 1945 showing John Smith in the US Army at the time Washington was nuked, and showing us medals he won as a US Army officer. How did he basically become the single most powerful Nazi in the American Reich in just 15 years? I can imagine him systemically eliminating his rivals over time like Stalin, but what made him become a true believer?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

^ I think the implication is that Frank died in the bombing, given the bookend-flashback thingy with him, Ed, and Juliana that featured in the episode. At least that's what I took from it.

Ah, yeah, that I did get that sense when watching that scene (and forgot about it when I wrote my post). Like I said before, it's a pity he's dead.

An interesting tidbit, though. General Onoda, introduced this season as the new head honcho in the Pacific States, is meant to be the guy (actually a Lieutenant in real life) that's famous for hiding out in the Philippine jungle until 1974 because he never received an order to stand down and thought the war was still going on. I thought that was pretty cool.

Damn, nice catch! I definitely notice that attention to detail.

Regarding the Greater Nazi Reich in the US, one thing I hope they explain in season 3 is how the ideology took hold in society so fast. In this universe, WW2 ended in 1947. The show currently takes place in November 1962. So that means that in 15 short years, a great portion of the US population accepted the Nazi outlook and it permeated every part of life. Since the Nazis of the show's universe have a significant technological advantage, I can understand the US surrendering. I can understand capitulation and living as a conquered people. But for the whole society to change like that in 15 years, where people sincerely believe these policies...I'd like to see that explored more in season 3.

Sort of how they gave us a flashback this season to 1945 showing John Smith in the US Army at the time Washington was nuked, and showing us medals he won as a US Army officer. How did he basically become the single most powerful Nazi in the American Reich in just 15 years? I can imagine him systemically eliminating his rivals over time like Stalin, but what made him become a true believer?

Actually, I think in the show, the war ended in 1945 as oppose to the novel where it ended in 1947 (both in "reality" and in The Grasshopper Lies Heavy), but your point stands. I would also like to see more exploration on that level, especially regarding John Smith. I find it a little hard to believe that Nazi Germay would allow Americans to join their military, let alone achieve high rank and office.

 

[Shawnster]

Huh? They show the world map twice during the second season,

Maybe I'm not quite that far yet. I'm just remembering the opening credits. http://cdn4.artofthetitle.com/assets/sm/upload/oy/5d/aq/d5/mihc_map_01.jpg

I'll look for those maps!

 

[Shawnster]

I wasn't sure how I would feel about watching this season considering the events in the U.S. In fact, one of the things that stood out to me about the show is how relatively chummy everyone in the Nazi world seems to be. What I mean by that is I didn't feel a strong sense of racism, bigotry, sexism beyond the occasional statements of being the master race, the situation regarding Thomas' illness and the murdering of the boat Joe was on. Maybe it's just me, but the whole Nazi atmosphere felt rather vanilla now. Conversely, I felt far more hatred in general in the Japanese Pacific States than I did with any of the Nazi territories.

Isn't the "vanilla" realistic, though? Under a Greater American Reich all the "undesirables" would have been purged or forced into exile. Kinda hard to appear anti-Semite, for example, when there are no Jews around. KKK wouldn't have anything to do in towns with no black people. They should all appear very friendly and kumbaya on the surface.

The Nazi race rhetoric would be obsolete after their goals are accomplished. Now, if the show was set in areas where the Nazis were routinely rubbing shoulders with the "genetically inferior," then we'd see the traditional Nazis spewing hate.

This show really depicts Nazi controlled territories as their propaganda presented it. I think it's a real nice touch.

I think the raceism is more apparent in the Pacific States where the Japanese do not view the white people as equals.

 

[Push The Button]

And all this, because McCoy accidently injects himself with a hypo full of cordrazine.

 

[Gaith]

Oh yeah, Frank's totally dead. That Frank, anyhow...

Well, that was a helluva finale. Some loose ends dangling, of course, but if the series ends here, future viewers can be assured of a satisfying conclusion. Indeed, narratively speaking, I'm not sure how much more can really be done - will it just be preventing an atomic war over and over, once the Reich realizes the Japanese don't actually have the bomb? (Or, if they do succeed in building one, that they only just recently did so?) There's the mystery of the films, I guess, and maybe even the toppling of the Reich, but one has to wonder how far the budget could stretch. Those last few episodes did a great job of making a huge and epic story out of a select few sets, but topping it could be tough.

- Anyone else think for a moment the person Juliana had left to live for, according to The Man, was Rat? (DJ Qualls will always be Rat from The Core to me.) I was expecting her to be all disappointed, and go, "ugh, him?!" *Cue Sad Trombone slide* I'd forgotten about Juliana's possible Trudy sighting by that point.

- Once Juliana learned where John Smith lived, I'm surprised the Resistance didn't just assassinate him at home. As Dixon says, they've been trying to kill him for years, and he wasn't exactly living with much personal security.

- So this world's Hitler turned out to be... certainly not a good guy, but not the worst, either? His only objection to war with Japan was presumably only equal devastation for the Reich, but, um, okay. The series certainly isn't afraid paint in shades of gray.

And all this, because McCoy accidently injects himself with a hypo full of cordrazine.

Nah. Between the series slooooow pace and apparent instances of magic, I prefer to consider this timeline a dramatization of what might happen if Ben and Brother Justin both succeed in killing each other:

​

General Onoda, introduced this season as the new head honcho in the Pacific States, is meant to be the guy (actually a Lieutenant in real life) that's famous for hiding out in the Philippine jungle until 1974 because he never received an order to stand down and thought the war was still going on. I thought that was pretty cool.

Wow, that guy was quite the story. (And only died less than two years ago!)

Since the Nazis of the show's universe have a significant technological advantage, I can understand the US surrendering. I can understand capitulation and living as a conquered people. But for the whole society to change like that in 15 years, where people sincerely believe these policies...I'd like to see that explored more in season 3.

Eh, that whole part of the premise is so outlandish, I don't mind it not being examined too closely. We were no nation of angels, but even with DC leveled, and the threat of more of the same should resistance endure, Americans of the time were too well-armed, independent, and protected by the vastness of the Atlantic to suffer conquest willingly. In this world, Germany must have had complete and unmitigated success throughout Europe to even consider building the kind of naval power (not to mention surplus troops) required to establish an East Coast North American presence, and suppress counter-attack.

 

[Shawnster]

[QUOTE="sttngfan1701d, post: 11862927, member: 2185"

Regarding the Greater Nazi Reich in the US, one thing I hope they explain in season 3 is how the ideology took hold in society so fast. In this universe, WW2 ended in 1947. The show currently takes place in November 1962. So that means that in 15 short years, a great portion of the US population accepted the Nazi outlook and it permeated every part of life. Since the Nazis of the show's universe have a significant technological advantage, I can understand the US surrendering. I can understand capitulation and living as a conquered people. But for the whole society to change like that in 15 years, where people sincerely believe these policies...I'd like to see that explored more in season 3.[/QUOTE]

I understand and this is something I've wondered about myself. It seems incredibly fast that everyone has swallowed so completely the party line.

I don't know. Maybe it is believable. Some people in the Reich disagree. The doctor that diagnosed Thomas Smith received death threats for doing that type of work. Whomever sent the death threats wasn't in agreement that all defectives should be euthanized.

In real life...
Rosa Parks refused to move her bus seat in 1955. This was the height of Jim Crowe laws in the South. 15 years later, 1970, social equality had made a giant step forward. This was because of the people supporting the laws that had passed and the general sentiment and determination that defeated Jim Crowe segregation.

In 2001 LGBT rights weren't on much of the radar with only 1 state legalizing gay marriage. Flash forward 15 years later and LGBT rights have dramatically increased to the point that this once taboo or unrealized topic is commonplace and increasingly accepted. No, it's not 100% but it's much greater than it was.

It seems there was a massive increase in bigoted attacks and hate crimes after the election of Donald Trump. In what appeared to be almost overnight bigoted individuals became emboldened and felt empowered. Give these people 15 years of unchecked freedom and lets see how far backward race relations could be set.

There are just 3 examples of how the popular tide and opinion can swing from one side to the other.

I was told once that (and the percentages are not accurate but are only for illustrative purposes) 25% of the people will always do what is right. 25% will always do what is wrong. It's that other 50% of the people you have to worry about. These ones will swing with the tide, go with the flow, support whichever idea seems most prevalent at the time. That mans that 75% of the people could either do good or bad depending on the dominant attitude at the time.

So, deep down maybe a lot of the people in America don't support the Reich but, because they won the war, are bullies, speak with the loudest voice and have the guns and weapons and means to kill any that oppose them, these people go with the flow and support the ruling class. That bigoted minority of Americans were empowered and placed in positions of authority because they already supported the ideals of the Reich. We don't know how many years it took the Reich to indoctrinate the American populace.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

- So this world's Hitler turned out to be... certainly not a good guy, but not the worst, either? His only objection to war with Japan was presumably only equal devastation for the Reich, but, um, okay. The series certainly isn't afraid paint in shades of gray.

I think it's reasonable to assume that Hitler, once his vision was accomplished (establish "living space" for the German people, establish a Reich and affirm Germany's greatness, eliminate the Jews and the Slavs and gypsies and inferior people, etc blah blah) would be very pleased with himself. He'd certainly be paranoid into old age, because he always was. He'd have his obsessions, because he always did. And during the war he supported his allies (except for the Russians, but they were Slavs, so....).

So I think the version of old man Hitler in this show is actually pretty accurate. He's finished with his vision, so he'll live out the rest of his years as a paranoid old guy obsessed with the High Castle films, afraid of assassination, doting on his dogs and giving candy to little Aryan girls with blond ringlets....and basically everyone would be standing around waiting for him to die so they could jockey for power. He wouldn't want war with Japan.

 

[Shawnster]

Berlin is truly a city of the future. I'm impressed with the architecture and design.

Thomas turning himself in for euthanization was a wow moment for me. He was a poster boy for the Reich all the way to the end. I loved the touch of giving his mom a receipt. I wonder if this will have ramifications for the Smith family with the Reich. How could their son be that defective and they not know it? Tsk Tsk. Maybe John Smith's position of authority will protect him.

How is it John Smith, an American solder during WWII, was allowed to rise so high in the Reich?

 

[DarthTom]

Berlin is truly a city of the future. I'm impressed with the architecture and design.

Thomas turning himself in for euthanization was a wow moment for me. He was a poster boy for the Reich all the way to the end. I loved the touch of giving his mom a receipt. I wonder if this will have ramifications for the Smith family with the Reich. How could their son be that defective and they not know it? Tsk Tsk. Maybe John Smith's position of authority will protect him.

How is it John Smith, an American solder during WWII, was allowed to rise so high in the Reich?

I remember reading some where that the Reich Chancellery - the super dome - was untenable as a realistic design for the single reason that its size and when too many people were inside the building - would create humidity and likely rain inside the building.

Regarding the other person's comments on people's acceptance of Nazi ideology - is it really that far fetched? Donald Trump and his win is the living example of where people will set aside vile ideology for personal economic and family security.

 

[Shawnster]

Regarding the other person's comments on people's acceptance of Nazi ideology - is it really that far fetched? Donald Trump and his win is the living example of where people will set aside vile ideology for personal economic and family security.

I have no problem with John Smith accepting Nazi ideology. I have a problem with the Nazis accepting John Smith and allowing him to rise so high in the government.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

I have no problem with John Smith accepting Nazi ideology. I have a problem with the Nazis accepting John Smith and allowing him to rise so high in the government.

Smith must've turned before the war's end and been instrumental in the fall of the US. That's the only thing I can think. In season 1, he talks about the bond he had with Col. Wegener, and it being so strong which is why he hesitated to imprison him. If Wegener was a Nazi during the war, then perhaps he was responsible for turning Smith? Spies cultivate each other all the time. Maybe this happened, and Smith gave the enemy the keys to bringing down the Pentagon or something.

Then as a reward he was made an SS officer in the American Reich, and rose in power super-fast like Stalin.

 

[Skipper]

Regarding the other person's comments on people's acceptance of Nazi ideology - is it really that far fetched? Donald Trump and his win is the living example of where people will set aside vile ideology for personal economic and family security.

This. And I don't believe that pre-war American perception about race was so liberal and progressive. Probably the only perceived difference between Nazi ideology and the "average" American one would have been about the lack of democracy ant the excessive centralization of the State.

Details that would soon be forgotten after a few years of SS & Gestapo round-ups.

 

[Snick27]

I do wonder if there will be a season 3 as it seems pretty much the story was told. Plus honestly first couple episodes where pretty boring. I almost quit watching after the 4th episode. But figured i had only a few more days left of my free trial of Amazon Prime so figured i would give it shot and glad i did.

I read the showrunner was let go during the writing process and that he over saw the first 5 episodes. And that they never replaced him. They just let the underneath guys finish the last 5 scripts.
Got to say im kinda glad as like i said i found the first 4 episodes boring as it seems there was no direction and just stories to be told for sake of stories (filler).
Tagomi sliding over to our earth was what really saved this season for me. As the whole multiverse ala Charlie Jade was a big hook for me.

Nicole Becker was and is very hot and also helped me get thru the Joe Blake and his dad
Heusmann(aka Balthazar on Supernatual) storyline.

Just feel the story is pretty wrap up except for how a certain person is still alive and if John Smith replaces Hitler or someone else does and will Joe go evil and cause trouble.

Still if there is a season 3 then get a show runner and tap into the multiverse story more and kinda of rush the stories a bit as season 2 felt too slow.
Though a actual war between Japan and Germany would be great to see on an show.

 

[Snick27]

Season 3 on the way!

Amazon’s adaptation of Philip K. Dick’s story is going strong, so it’s no surprise that the show’s been renewed for a third season. And with that third season comes a new—and hopefully permanent—showrunner.


Eric Overmyer, who has already developed and produced an Amazon show (Bosch), is being brought in to replace Frank Spotnitz, who created the TV adaptation but left The Man in the High Castle in the middle of season two.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-man-in-the-high-castle-gets-another-season-and-anot-1790706939

 

[Gaith]

Heyyy, this guy from the Mortal Kombat Honest Trailer looks familiar:

And he was in "Encounter at Farpoint" also? Would not have recognized him:

Speaking of which, truth time: how many of you all realized that Cal's butler from Titanic...

​

Is also Gul Madred?!

... Because I only just now learned that.

 

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

I'm hard-pressed to think of any show or movie featuring a healthy amount of Asian characters that Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa hasn't been in. David Warner is a far cry from an obscure face in genre fimls/shows, too. Tron, the Omen, Time Bandits, TMNT, Star Trek V, Planet of the Apes, Wing Commander, etc.

 

[Snick27]

Wow i never knew Cary was that Cary.
Also loved Time Bandits!!!

 

[Skywalker]

Yeah, I recognized Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa, he's been in tons of stuff. Joel de la Fuente, the actor who plays Inspector Kido, also played Paul Wang on the short-lived Space: Above and Beyond, a show I really enjoyed, so it's been neat watching him as well.

I signed up for Amazon Prime during the holidays so I figured I'd take advantage and blitzed (ha!) through both seasons. I really enjoyed it. My only real qualm was with the obnoxious romantic angle between Julia and Joe in season 1, but fortunately they mostly did away with that in season 2, which improved the show greatly. Looking forward to season 3!

 

[Tom]

On Episode 5 now, 3 Cylons spotted so far! Leoben, Simon and now Tigh. What has happened before will happen again...