For thinking that he's Sisko? He is.
Is Deep Space Nine racist?
- Thread starter Destructor
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^ But he's not the Sisko she THINKS he is. They're two different people who just happened to have the same name. So therefore it is still deception.
Perhaps she should ask first.
That said, he is the exact same matter as MU Sisko--they are the same person.
No, they are not. They have different histories, different personalities, different memories. The only thing they have in common are physical appearance and name.
The two Siskos are no more the same person than twin siblings would be.
Perhaps, however as I see it, it can't really be rape as the instigator and the deceiver aren't the same person. There's also nothing in the episode's script that suggests any sex took place (though I agree that was Dax's intention).
Literally, they are the same matter from two different universes. The fact that they have two different histories or personalities does not mean he is not Sisko. Someone with multiple personality disorder, for instance, could not be accused to rape. For that matter, someone who lies about being rich or royalty or whatever could not be accused of rape.
His name was Benjamin Sisko, were was the lie?
You think all those rich old white men get the complete truth why female , nubile lovers want to marry them, are they being raped? What do young women see in geriatric mega rich Mick Jagger for example. Are their motives truthful?
Sisko knew he wasn't the MU Sisko that Dax thought he was, and encouraged her confusion for purposes of his own. I don't know if that constitutes rape, but it's not exactly consent either.
They implied sex about as clearly as a TV show ever did, ended a scene with them alone taking off their outer clothing. Maybe they were playing tiddiliwinks.
They implied sex about as clearly as a TV show ever did, ended a scene with them alone taking off their outer clothing. Maybe they were playing tiddiliwinks.
Jadzia thought she was going to have sex with someone she knew. Instead, she had sex with someone who looked like him and allowed it to happen.
Maybe he was crap in bed
In Regards to this question, remember what Rom remind us of.
"A contract is a contract is a contract, but only between Ferengi"
Romulans get a lot of it as well, but I think it's towards generalisations and in group/species preference than outright racism.
Could you say calling Cardassians "Cardies" a racial slur? like Charlie in Vietnam or the names given to the Japanese in WW2, similar to calling germans Jerry (but that would be an Ethnic slur)? O'Brien sure uses the term a lot when remembering the war.
"A contract is a contract is a contract, but only between Ferengi"
Romulans get a lot of it as well, but I think it's towards generalisations and in group/species preference than outright racism.
Could you say calling Cardassians "Cardies" a racial slur? like Charlie in Vietnam or the names given to the Japanese in WW2, similar to calling germans Jerry (but that would be an Ethnic slur)? O'Brien sure uses the term a lot when remembering the war.
Yes, it is. O'Brien was racist toward Cardassians, at least for a while. The slur is meant to be just that.
So much of DS9 is dealing with this topic, I think. For me that makes the 'show' itself rather far from 'racist' (or speciesist as the case may be).
All the stories about the Bajoran attitude toward Cardassians (or anyone else's attitude toward Cardassians for that matter) explore the complexity of adjusting your attitude toward an oppressive 'race' after occupation/war. When so many Cardassians were involved in the occupation, does this mean that Bajorans are in the right to automatically hate all members of that species? DS9 constantly questioned the many ways in which people come to deal with other cultures/races in the aftermath of terrible events.
DS9 allowed our heroes, like Kira and O'Brien, to be 'racist' because DS9's heroes weren't perfect and weren't above generalisation and prejudice. They were situated in scenarios that perhaps inevitably led to certain notions about certain species - you can totally understand why Kira feels the way she does about Cardassians. When all she has experienced of a group of people is awful, why wouldn't she have mistrust and hatred? Characters like Garak, early-days Dukat, Ziyal and Damar allowed us to see various facets of the Cardassians that highlighted the complexity of the situation and the 'humanity' at the heart of most Trek races, when the writers choose to truly explore them. And the ending of the show, with the monumental slaughter of Cardassians, forces us to question whether we want to gloat about a race getting what it deserved, or whether we want to lament the loss of culture and potential. Whether we want to view them as an evil race, or whether we want to view them as individual people.
I think that although the Ferengi get a bad reputation because they are so antithetical to Federation values, DS9 is subtler than that. Quark never bows down to the Federation way of life. It doesn't make him evil - yes, he takes his greed-minded worldview too far by many standards, but as is often pointed out, the Ferengi way of life is peaceful compared to many more 'enlightened' civilisations and maybe they have some interesting ideas about the liberating effects of a totally free market? It's something DS9 allows us to contemplate - and Rom and Nog allow us to see that culture and race are indeed different, and that one's species doesn't define one's place in the world.
All the stories about the Bajoran attitude toward Cardassians (or anyone else's attitude toward Cardassians for that matter) explore the complexity of adjusting your attitude toward an oppressive 'race' after occupation/war. When so many Cardassians were involved in the occupation, does this mean that Bajorans are in the right to automatically hate all members of that species? DS9 constantly questioned the many ways in which people come to deal with other cultures/races in the aftermath of terrible events.
DS9 allowed our heroes, like Kira and O'Brien, to be 'racist' because DS9's heroes weren't perfect and weren't above generalisation and prejudice. They were situated in scenarios that perhaps inevitably led to certain notions about certain species - you can totally understand why Kira feels the way she does about Cardassians. When all she has experienced of a group of people is awful, why wouldn't she have mistrust and hatred? Characters like Garak, early-days Dukat, Ziyal and Damar allowed us to see various facets of the Cardassians that highlighted the complexity of the situation and the 'humanity' at the heart of most Trek races, when the writers choose to truly explore them. And the ending of the show, with the monumental slaughter of Cardassians, forces us to question whether we want to gloat about a race getting what it deserved, or whether we want to lament the loss of culture and potential. Whether we want to view them as an evil race, or whether we want to view them as individual people.
I think that although the Ferengi get a bad reputation because they are so antithetical to Federation values, DS9 is subtler than that. Quark never bows down to the Federation way of life. It doesn't make him evil - yes, he takes his greed-minded worldview too far by many standards, but as is often pointed out, the Ferengi way of life is peaceful compared to many more 'enlightened' civilisations and maybe they have some interesting ideas about the liberating effects of a totally free market? It's something DS9 allows us to contemplate - and Rom and Nog allow us to see that culture and race are indeed different, and that one's species doesn't define one's place in the world.
I think that the way DS9 dealed with racism and prejudice in-universe was awesome.
Apart from the time when Dr. Daystrom starts breaking down and lashes out by referencing fellow researchers as "...Colleagues laughing behind my back at the boy wonder and becoming famous building on my work!" (it's part of a powerful scene from "The Ultimate Computer" that has nothing to do with referencing "Batman" or the age he first developed his theories and concepts but everything to do with stealing others' work... and racism.
)Apart from the time when Dr. Daystrom starts breaking down and lashes out by referencing fellow researchers as "...Colleagues laughing behind my back at the boy wonder and becoming famous building on my work!" (it's part of a powerful scene from "The Ultimate Computer" that has nothing to do with referencing "Batman" or the age he first developed his theories and concepts but everything to do with stealing others' work... and racism.
Actually, given that he was apparently only twenty-four when he developed duotronics, references to "boy wonder" could (in-universe) just as easily have been references to his youth. Though I agree that out-of-universe racist persecution may have helped Marshall 'sell' the dialogue.
Can't say I've ever thought of that piece of dialog in that way. "Boy Wonder" is too common a phrase to interpret as anything other than a reference to success at an early age. I doubt the line or the role was written with a particular race in mind.
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