Black Vulcan

[roseake]

For a series that prides itself on diversity and a wide range of alien races/worlds, there seems to be a distinct lack of world-building in the shows by TPTB. Besides there being little about variations in skin colour and other superficial changes in races, there also seems to be a limit on religions per species. (Most likely due to budget and time and blah, I do realise this)

Is it really reasonable the the entirety of Vulcan follows the teaching of Surak besides the V'tosh Ka'tur? And that the only two religions on Bajor are those who worship the Prophets and those who worship the Pah-Wraiths? Considering that there are about 4200 religions on Earth alone, it would stand to reason that other worlds would have a hell of a lot more than two - we just haven't seen them.

So I imagine it's the same with different ethnicity in different races: they'll be there and there'll be a perfectly good explanation, the world-building just hasn't gone that far. Along with black Vulcans (which logically would make sense being as it's a desert planet), there could also be Andorians that are purple or have differently-places antennae.

TLDR; each alien species we see probably has a wide range of ethnicities all their own, the TV world-building just hasn't gone that far. The books probably have. So a black/oriental/whatever Vulcan shouldn't be unexpected.

 

[Guy Gardener]

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[Logicpuzzle]

Vulcan does not have a African continent! Nor does it have an Asian one! The whole idea is Ridiculous! If anything, other Vulcan races Would be greener not browner. The blood is green. The sun is red. It's different, so the skin pigmentation would be! And why would darker skinned Vulcans have flatter noses and wider lips like humans of African descent? The whole idea of a black Vulcan was just to show HUMAN racial diversity on a sci-fi show!

I think the idea that Vulcans and Humans could reproduce together is a lot more ridiculous than skin colors. We can't even reproduce with apes and we evolved on the same planet. Humanoids through the whole galaxy are treated like dogs. There are all still theoretical the same thing, only in different phenotype. And some color pattern are reappearing in lots of different dog breeds without being close related, because some genes can easily mutate and create this color again, maybe it's the same with the the different skin colors and other racial characteristics through the space races.

 

[jmidnight_99]

I think the idea that Vulcans and Humans could reproduce together is a lot more ridiculous than skin colors. We can't even reproduce with apes and we evolved on the same planet. Humanoids through the whole galaxy are treated like dogs. There are all still theoretical the same thing, only in different phenotype. And some color pattern are reappearing in lots of different dog breeds without being close related, because some genes can easily mutate and create this color again, maybe it's the same with the the different skin colors and other racial characteristics through the space races.

I think the issue about the genetic compatibility or similarity of the alien races was touched on in a ST:TNG episode... All humanoid species were planted by some ancient alien race who spread their DNA across the galaxy. So that's how they explained why everyone looked similar and some alien races could procreate.

 

[Logicpuzzle]

I think the issue about the genetic compatibility or similarity of the alien races was touched on in a ST:TNG episode... All humanoid species were planted by some ancient alien race who spread their DNA across the galaxy. So that's how they explained why everyone looked similar and some alien races could procreate.

Didn't change the fact that as long as they can make fertile offsprings, they are still conspecific; like dogs. Vulcans are more well train Dobermans and humans would be some barking mad Jack Russell terriers.

 

[Nyotarules]

For a series that prides itself on diversity and a wide range of alien races/worlds, there seems to be a distinct lack of world-building in the shows by TPTB. Besides there being little about variations in skin colour and other superficial changes in races, there also seems to be a limit on religions per species. (Most likely due to budget and time and blah, I do realise this)

Is it really reasonable the the entirety of Vulcan follows the teaching of Surak besides the V'tosh Ka'tur? And that the only two religions on Bajor are those who worship the Prophets and those who worship the Pah-Wraiths? Considering that there are about 4200 religions on Earth alone, it would stand to reason that other worlds would have a hell of a lot more than two - we just haven't seen them.

So I imagine it's the same with different ethnicity in different races: they'll be there and there'll be a perfectly good explanation, the world-building just hasn't gone that far. Along with black Vulcans (which logically would make sense being as it's a desert planet), there could also be Andorians that are purple or have differently-places antennae.

TLDR; each alien species we see probably has a wide range of ethnicities all their own, the TV world-building just hasn't gone that far. The books probably have. So a black/oriental/whatever Vulcan shouldn't be unexpected.

The novels do better world building for obvious reasons however it amuses me that Vulcans speak 'Vulcan', Andorians speak 'Andorian', Klingons speak 'Klingon' but humans have over 1000 languages and dialects. Perhaps the in universe explanation is humans have only been united globally for 200 years but the other races have been globally united for millenia so are not as culturally diverse compared to Earth and one official language rose up in the ranks and became the standard language for all races on the planet. Or the Vulcan we hear is their version of English, the official dominant language among thousands.

 

[The Lonely Man]

The novels do better world building for obvious reasons however it amuses me that Vulcans speak 'Vulcan', Andorians speak 'Andorian', Klingons speak 'Klingon' but humans have over 1000 languages and dialects. Perhaps the in universe explanation is humans have only be united globally for 200 years but the other races have been globally united for millenia so are not as culturally diverse compared to Earth and one official language rose up in the ranks and became the standard language for all races on the planet. Or the Vulcan we hear is their version of English, the official dominant language among thousands.

Would that not be their version of Mandarin then ?

I do get what you're saying though. Much like how any random planet The Enterprise or Voyager came across we were introduced to The Prefect, or The First Minister or some other variation that signifies this one individual is the political leader of the entire planet.

It's probably best we just look past it.

 

[Nyotarules]

Would that not be their version of Mandarin then ?

I do get what you're saying though. Much like how any random planet The Enterprise or Voyager came across we were introduced to The Prefect, or The First Minister or some other variation that signifies this one individual is the political leader of the entire planet.

It's probably best we just look past it.

A politically united planet I can understand, since this is where Earth has progressed to in the Star Trek universe and seems to be a requirement for membership. However it would be interesting if they came across a planet that was divided like Earth is too today, but still technologically advanced, it would make an interesting episode, with some nations welcoming the visitors and the other nations seeing them as a threat.
Something for Star Trek Discovery to explore perhaps?
However I like the idea of someone asking Spock do you speak Vulcan and he replies no do you speak Human? lol

 

[Logicpuzzle]

A politically united planet I can understand, since this is where Earth has progressed to in the Star Trek universe and seems to be a requirement for membership. However it would be interesting if they came across a planet that was divided like Earth is too today, but still technologically advanced, it would make an interesting episode, with some nations welcoming the visitors and the other nations seeing them as a threat.
Something for Star Trek Discovery to explore perhaps?
However I like the idea of someone asking Spock do you speak Vulcan and he replies no do you speak Human? lol

But even a political united world would be more divided than what we see on most planets in Star Trek. If you try to get right of someones language and unique culture, they are going to fight you. It would contradict a united world.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

The premise of this thread and plenty of the comments are cringe-inducing. How could this possibly be discussed at such length?

There is an enormous spectrum of alien species in Star Trek, of all shapes, sizes, and colors. We've seen lizard people that are chased throughout the galaxy for sport. We've seen fish people in stasis. We've seen literally Apollo. We've seen a fucking dog with a horn on its head. But a black Vulcan? How could this possibly be? Must be a Vulcan Africa! Like, seriously? Is this really a discussion?

 

[uniderth]

TThere is an enormous spectrum of alien species in Star Trek, of all shapes, sizes, and colors. We've seen lizard people that are chased throughout the galaxy for sport. We've seen fish people in stasis. We've seen literally Apollo. We've seen a fucking dog with a horn on its head. But a black Vulcan? How could this possibly be? Must be a Vulcan Africa! Like, seriously? Is this really a discussion?

That's the point though. Such similarity to human ethnicity should be a statistical anomaly. Granted, such similarity to "white" humans should also be a statistical anomaly. However given that there are plenty of mixed genetics in Star Trek either through Preservers, or what have you, we have an explanation for such seeming anomalies.

 

[MAGolding]

There are no black, red, yellow, brown, pink or white Vulcans, or Betazoids, or Klingons, or Cardassians, etc. The caucasian, African, South Asian, East Asian, Native American, etc. races on Earth are merely types or races of the species Homo sapiens. No member of the species Homo floresienses or Homo erectus or Homo heidelbergensis can be a member of any race or "race" of the species Homo sapiens, alone any member of an extraterrestrial species.

It is true that the actors who portray Star Trek aliens are usually members of the caucasian race and sometimes members of other races of Homo sapiens.

Old fashioned stories often had frame stories telling how the narrator or writer obtain knowledge of the events in the story. But that story telling device is almost totally extinct these days. There is no official frame story telling how knowledge of future events was acquired by the creators of various Star Trek productions and there probably never will be. Thus nobody can know how accurate various Star Trek productions are, including how closely various actors resemble the characters they portray..

Nobody can know if Vulcans, or Klingons, or any other species in Star Trek have the same racial diversity, less diversity, or more diversity than they are depicted as having. Anyone could imagine that Vulcans actually have purple, blue, green and grey skin tones, and the white, Asian, black, etc. actors playing Vulcans are hired so that actors of one specific human race portray one specific Vulcan race. Or we can imagine that the racial variety of actors portraying Vulcans is purely random.

 

[Sci]

Vulcan does not have a African continent! Nor does it have an Asian one! The whole idea is Ridiculous!

It doesn't have a European continent either, so the idea that Vulcans would just happen to look like they have ancestors in Ukraine is kind of absurd, too.

It is a fundamental conceit of the Star Trek franchise that most alien species look like real-world humans with differences here and there. It's no more absurd for there to be a black Vulcan than a white Vulcan, so unless you're going to complain about Vulcans looking like any variety of Human, you are being logically inconsistent.

If anything, other Vulcan races Would be greener not browner. The blood is green. The sun is red. It's different, so the skin pigmentation would be!

Nah, brown skin in reaction to a desert sun makes sense; evolution would select for a shade of pigment that reflects most wavelengths of light away from the body, irrelevant of the blood color.

"White" Vulcans don't make a lot of sense, though; apparently the entire planet receives roughly the same amount of sunlight as equatorial Africa or the Middle East, so really it would make more sense for Vulcans to have skin tones that vary from very dark black to light brown. And if there were Vulcans with light skin tones, you would expect them to look more greenish.

And why would darker skinned Vulcans have flatter noses and wider lips like humans of African descent?

"Flatter?" "Darker?" "Wider?" Flatter than what? Darker than what? Wider than what?

Really, why would Vulcans have lighter skin, thinner lips, or sharper noses?

Why do you assume the European look is the default setting?

 

[Tenacity]

apparently the entire planet receives roughly the same amount of sunlight as equatorial Africa or the Middle East

But in Amok Time, there were no hard shadows, the light was very diffuse, like there was solid cloud cover overhead.

 

[jmidnight_99]

It doesn't have a European continent either, so the idea that Vulcans would just happen to look like they have ancestors in Ukraine is kind of absurd, too.

It is a fundamental conceit of the Star Trek franchise that most alien species look like real-world humans with differences here and there. It's no more absurd for there to be a black Vulcan than a white Vulcan, so unless you're going to complain about Vulcans looking like any variety of Human, you are being logically inconsistent.



Nah, brown skin in reaction to a desert sun makes sense; evolution would select for a shade of pigment that reflects most wavelengths of light away from the body, irrelevant of the blood color.

"White" Vulcans don't make a lot of sense, though; apparently the entire planet receives roughly the same amount of sunlight as equatorial Africa or the Middle East, so really it would make more sense for Vulcans to have skin tones that vary from very dark black to light brown. And if there were Vulcans with light skin tones, you would expect them to look more greenish.



"Flatter?" "Darker?" "Wider?" Flatter than what? Darker than what? Wider than what?

Really, why would Vulcans have lighter skin, thinner lips, or sharper noses?

Why do you assume the European look is the default setting?

I'm not mr. kooky PC, left-winger. I'm saying it's unlikely for green, copper based blood Vulcans to include a population of brown-skinned African look-alikes, even assuming the rest of them look like green-tinted "Europeans". I don't need your big long racially motivated explanation. And not all star trek species look human, just the humanoid ones.

 

[E-DUB]

Sun exposure is a relative thing. The darker Vulcans come from the areas that get more sun exposure. The lighter ones from the areas that get less, even though that exposure is more than we'd typically get on Earth even in areas that, here at least, produce darker humans.

I do wonder about racial diversity in races like the Klingons who have the whole warrior thing going on. One would think that they would have exterminated "the other" before reaching spaceflight status. But they're still dealing with the "smooth vs. bumpy" thing.

 

[Tenacity]

While Vulcan might lack the large bodies of water of Earth, there could be vast sections of desert which are extremely difficult to cross, impassible mountain ranges, these could lead to separate racial groups.

Also religious and social traditions that dictated which group you would marry within and have children with.

Tuvok's ancestors and Spock's ancestors wouldn't inter-marry.

 

[Sci]

I'm not mr. kooky PC, left-winger. I'm saying it's unlikely for green, copper based blood Vulcans to include a population of brown-skinned African look-alikes, even assuming the rest of them look like green-tinted "Europeans". I don't need your big long racially motivated explanation.

This isn't about being a kooky left-winger, this is about basic biology. It is far more likely that an alien species that evolves in a vast planetary desert with lots of sunlight would evolve to have dark skin in order to reflect away most wavelengths of sunlight, than that they would have light skin comparable to those of European or Asian Humans.

None of them are plausible, because it simply isn't plausible that aliens will resemble humans. But in Star Trek, most aliens look like humans, so if we grade on a curve, a black Vulcan is more plausible than a white Vulcan.

And not all star trek species look human, just the humanoid ones.

Which is why I said the majority of aliens, not all. Please pay attention to what I say.

 

[Logicpuzzle]

I'm not mr. kooky PC, left-winger. I'm saying it's unlikely for green, copper based blood Vulcans to include a population of brown-skinned African look-alikes, even assuming the rest of them look like green-tinted "Europeans". I don't need your big long racially motivated explanation. And not all star trek species look human, just the humanoid ones.

Why do we have to be left-wingers or racial motivated?
We just take the facts for what they are and try to find an explanation tat make sense to us within the rules of the Star Trek universe.
You are the one that doubt the given facts. We see dark skinned and 'asian' Vulcans, so they obviously either exist or have to question the whole concept that the alien shown resemble this given depiction. That's what we are doing. It seems unreasonable to cherry pick what to accept as given and what not.

 

[jmidnight_99]

This isn't about being a kooky left-winger, this is about basic biology. It is far more likely that an alien species that evolves in a vast planetary desert with lots of sunlight would evolve to have dark skin in order to reflect away most wavelengths of sunlight, than that they would have light skin comparable to those of European or Asian Humans.

None of them are plausible, because it simply isn't plausible that aliens will resemble humans. But in Star Trek, most aliens look like humans, so if we grade on a curve, a black Vulcan is more plausible than a white Vulcan.

Which is why I said the majority of aliens, not all. Please pay attention to what I say.

Spare me your conjecture and back-pedaling.

First, you don't know if the number of aliens shown (which are humanoid) constitutes a vast minority of sentient aliens in general, that are not shown. So your argument is moot.

You don't know what an alien will look like. If there were aliens who looked like humanoids, which, since we look humanoid is NOT the impossibility you seem to think it is, it's astronomical that there would be white, black and Asian ones on another planet. And you sure don't know what is or isn't plausible sitting here on this rock worrying about Hillary and Don. Curve that.

You don't have a clue what wavelengths of light will or will not reach the surface of an alien planet. Among other things, this would be a function of the type of radiation emitted by the star, the content of the atmosphere, the location on the planet, and the angle of rotation of the planet.

What is the point of this conversation. There would be no black Vulcans. If anything, there would be greener ones.