Voyager, sorry.... what ? moments.

[2takesfrakes]

Kes just needed the right Man -- and Neelix wasn't it. Had she an acceptable lifespan and a cool boyfriend, she would've been set as The Toast of STAR TREK: Voyager. "Oh! But her boyfriend's a burger-flipping Talaxian. We'll just keep working that, until the audience comes around to it, finally." I really hate that, when they're deliberately obtuse about an idea they had that does NOT work ... sometimes, they just can't admit to being wrong. With some very modest reshuffling of Kes' Life aboard Voyager, there would've been no stopping her.

 

[Finn]

And I've never seen Kes as a "virgin faerie princess" either, just a great character.

No, she wasn't.

 

[Sophie74656]

back to the original topic.....a WTF moment for me was in Endgame when they found the hub. I always thought that Seven would have known about it since she still had her Borg knowledge.

Actually her knowing about the location of the hub is a major plot point in my headcanon version of Endgame

 

[Tracy Trek]

@Sophie74656 , Thanks for getting the train back on the track. .

What is your headcanon version of Endgame?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I always thought that Seven would have known about it since she still had her Borg knowledge.

Interesting point, actually: did Seven retain the full knowledge of the collective after she was disconnected? I don't remember any reference to this on the show.

My instincts say no, if only because it's unlikely a humanoid brain could contain all of it - drones can access the collective anytime they need, but they don't keep it all in their own heads.

 

[Sophie74656]

Interesting point, actually: did Seven retain the full knowledge of the collective after she was disconnected? I don't remember any reference to this on the show.

My instincts say no, if only because it's unlikely a humanoid brain could contain all of it - drones can access the collective anytime they need, but they don't keep it all in their own heads.

She showed that she did retain a lot of Borg knowledge. Many different species numbers for example

 

[Sophie74656]

@Sophie74656 , Thanks for getting the train back on the track. .

What is your headcanon version of Endgame?

In my head it's similar but without time travel. As they near the nebula Seven tells them that there is the hub which in theory could get them back to the AQ. She also warns them that the nebula is sure to be swarming with Borg ships and would be super risky.

They spend some time debating it and decide to try. They come up with <technobabble> which they believe will mask them long enoug to get to the hub. All goes well for a while but their <technobabble> fails and they come under attack. Voyager makes it out of the nebula and the attack ends but Voyager is crippled...missing a nacelle, damaged beyond repair, about to launch escape pods. A group of Borg ships approaches and it seems they are doomed, completely defenseless. It turns out that the new ships are some of the freed Borg from Unimatrix Zero led by Korak (was that his name?) His ship takes Voyager inside and they all go back into the nebula fighting with those Borg along the way. They get to the hub and go through destroying it behind them and end up in the AQ.

 

[BillJ]

She showed that she did retain a lot of Borg knowledge. Many different species numbers for example

It was apparent the Seven was working on a different level than the rest of her shipmates.

 

[fleetlordatvar]

70% of this show is WTF

 

[jmidnight_99]

Kes being the key word. What we saw with Lien in say, Warlord, that woman had volume and potential we would only get a glimpse of. Kes had a shaky foundation. And time is money. They didn't want to explore on their dime. Had she been as interesting as her race, I think they would have. I'm invested in Seven, so I'm glad they did it but I can't help but feel that was the easier avenue to write for.

Warlord seemed to be a last ditch effort to me, to put the character in some different situations and make her more interesting and multi-dimensonal. And If I had to make a list of my 5 east favorite episodes, 'Warlord' would be on it. The episode was a train wreck due to Kes.

 

[jmidnight_99]

Why does eveything have to end up a fight about Kes

Because some people are deep in denial. And the things they say are frustrating. Nothing done with the Kes character could have or would have generated any of the interest the Seven character brought to the show. Investing in that ridiculous character would have been the end of the show. And you wonder what goes through the heads of those who think otherwise.

 

[jmidnight_99]

No, I don't know it. I'm glad you do, and appreciate your point of view.
I liked Kes, and I don't care for Seven-if that's a controversial statement then fine.

But, to me several of the ideas explored with Seven could have been explored with Kes. The idea of a very childlike attitude, which is how Jeri played Seven early on, could have been carried forward with Kes, and allowing her to mature in her powers.

Did Seven introduce some good story points? I would agree and say yes. My only lament is wasted potential with Kes.

Kes had no potential to carry stories. We didn't need any more boring scenes watching Kes whisper calmly, smile, or cry in fear. The character was never interesting. What makes you think keeping hr would have made her more interesting? At what point did she show "potential"? What exactly did this character bring to the table, that the producers, writers and the majority of fans missed? You're in denial because your favorite was almost universally disliked, and ultimately given the heave-ho.

 

[Akiraprise]

Oh, are we getting a bit hysterical today?

No. Just tired of your "I'm not really trashing Ryan for having boobs, it is all the B's fault that I was forced to look at her boobs instead of my virgin faerie princess".

You always do the same thing, make comments about her assets being a cheap ploy and then say you have nothing against her. It's low, it's crass, it's body shaming you won't own.

Both of you need to chill. Perhaps ignore needs to be utilized.

Kes vs Seven pissing matches are always so much fun... and this isn't the thread for that anyway.

Let's get back on the topic of WTF?!

 

[fireproof78]

Kes had no potential to carry stories. We didn't need any more boring scenes watching Kes whisper calmly, smile, or cry in fear. The character was never interesting. What makes you think keeping hr would have made her more interesting? At what point did she show "potential"? What exactly did this character bring to the table, that the producers, writers and the majority of fans missed? You're in denial because your favorite was almost universally disliked, and ultimately given the heave-ho.

Yes, I'm in denial because a fictional character was lost...

If I'm in the minority, that's fine by me. Here's what I think was missed with Kes:
-showing her in a different relationship than just with Neelix. It allows her to go through the stage of being more of an adult and learning about relationship dynamics.
-Show her powers giving her insight in to events, which puts more in to an advisor role.
-Expand her powers but as a result, it ages her faster. So, she has to decide between using them and aging even faster or not and living a longer life.

And, that's off the top of my head. I'm sure if I rewatched VOY I could come up with more.

I think she had potential. I think lots of characters do. You don't. That's fine. It's called opinions

And, we're moving on up
WTF happened to Ensign Wildman? Has that even been asked?

 

[Lynx]

Both of you need to chill. Perhaps ignore needs to be utilized.

Kes vs Seven pissing matches are always so much fun... and this isn't the thread for that anyway.

Let's get back on the topic of WTF?!

I'm cool!
The cool cat, you know!

fireproof78 wrote:

WTF happened to Ensign Wildman? Has that even been asked?

She became an important member of The Shuttle and Torpedo Building Team!

 

[captainkirk]

She became an important member of The Shuttle and Torpedo Building Team!

And at the rate Chakotay went through shuttles none of the team ever got a break.

 

[Sophie74656]

Yes, I'm in denial because a fictional character was lost...

If I'm in the minority, that's fine by me. Here's what I think was missed with Kes:
-showing her in a different relationship than just with Neelix. It allows her to go through the stage of being more of an adult and learning about relationship dynamics.
-Show her powers giving her insight in to events, which puts more in to an advisor role.
-Expand her powers but as a result, it ages her faster. So, she has to decide between using them and aging even faster or not and living a longer life.

And, that's off the top of my head. I'm sure if I rewatched VOY I could come up with more.

I think she had potential. I think lots of characters do. You don't. That's fine. It's called opinions

And, we're moving on up
WTF happened to Ensign Wildman? Has that even been asked?

I could never see her as an advisor. Personally I would never go to someone less than five years old for advice on anything.

But I think the concept of her powers expanding and it aging her is interesting. That could have brought some interesting drama. Perhaps some scenes where it would have been increidbly helpful to the ship for her to use a big blast of her power but it would take a year of her life or something.

 

[BillJ]

I could never see her as an advisor. Personally I would never go to someone less than five years old for advice on anything.

I think that is part of what could've made the character interesting, breaking the human conceptions of age and wisdom.

 

[Sophie74656]

I think that is part of what could've made the character interesting, breaking the human conceptions of age and wisdom.

Maybe, but to be a councelor people go through years of study and training. Plus they have their own life experiences. Kes has none of that. Just because she is kind and compasionate doesn't mean she would be a good councelor.

 

[BillJ]

Maybe, but to be a councelor people go through years of study and training. Plus they have their own life experiences. Kes has none of that. Just because she is kind and compasionate doesn't mean she would be a good councelor.

But wouldn't Vulcans have the same kind of feelings about humans? They have half of our lifespan, they can never truly understand us?