Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

[2takesfrakes]

Dr. Beverly Crusher's deceased Husband Jack continues to factor into TNG, even though Bev's been a widow long before we first met her on the show. And whilst they were married, Jack made passionate love to his beautiful wife and he was not shooting blanks. Picard was Jack's best friend. It is in TNG, where Picard tells Crusher that, because of his friendship and loyalty to Jack, he could never act on feelings for her. Retroactively, this excludes any possibility of Picard being the father of her only child - Jack's son, Wesley. Bev and Picard were married, already, in an Alternative Timeline, and it wasn't focused on, there was no fuss made about it. In the Prime Universe, Picard & Crusher are platonic friends.

Wow! Dawson was almost as old as Mulgrew? That's incredible. Dawson looks so much younger, so much more beautiful than Mulgrew. Roxann had some very good genes! But if you want to believe that Paris & Janeway could've had a fling, then I won't deny you it. But for myself, I view it from a different perspective. The fact that you hold Seven in greater esteem than you do Chakotay puzzles me. She was just thrown in for T&A, surely you can't compare that with Chakotay's contributions to the saga! And as for Janeway not needing a Man, well ... we are talking about the same woman who hid in her room for the better part of a year, because her Daddy died. Let her legs and armpits get hairy. Her nails grow long. And bathed infrequently, until her sister got her out of that rutt ... so, why not?

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Dr. Beverly Crusher's deceased Husband Jack continues to factor into TNG, even though Bev's been a widow long before we first met her on the show. And whilst they were married, Jack made passionate love to his beautiful wife and he was not shooting blanks. Picard was Jack's best friend. It is in TNG, where Picard tells Crusher that, because of his friendship and loyalty to Jack, he could never act on feelings for her. Retroactively, this excludes any possibility of Picard being the father of her only child - Jack's son, Wesley. Bev and Picard were married, already, in an Alternative Timeline, and it wasn't focused on, there was no fuss made about it. In the Prime Universe, Picard & Crusher are platonic friends.

THANKS, 2takesfrakes, to have informed me about Picard / Crusher.
I just watched a couple of ST: TNG episodes. However I fell on articles about their romance but I didn't know if their couple lasted or not...

The fact that you hold Seven in greater esteem than you do Chakotay puzzles me. She was just thrown in for T&A, surely you can't compare that with Chakotay's contributions to the saga

Firstly, I'm not used to hold esteem in fictional characters. I only respect real people that I know or whose the life experiences are exceptional.

Secondly, I like the characters having a multi-facet, because it obliges their performers to be polyvalent and by that, to surpass themself. We got that with Janeway/Mulgrew, Seven/Ryan and the Doctor/Picardo. We saw Janeway and the Doctor struggling between their personalities and their charges. As for Seven, it was rather seeing her to question what she was as Borg - what/who she became in her quest of humanity - who she was going to be physically and emotionally after to have reached about 80% of her humanity. I regret that the character of Chakotay was one-sided in constrast, while he was so rich (were producers too shy to develop this character? Did they doubt of Beltran's acting on the length? I don't know but the result was disappointing and god knows how much I tried to like Chakotay. It would have been preferable that he continues to lead his Maquis crew and tension with Janeway/Tuvok/Paris be more pronounced to keep interest around his character. With the arrival of Seven and the development of the Doctor, he was completely relegated to the background, while he was supposed to be one of the main characters.

And as for Janeway not needing a Man, well ... we are talking about the same woman who hid in her room for the better part of a year, because her Daddy died. Let her legs and armpits get hairy. Her nails grow long. And bathed infrequently, until her sister got her out of that rutt ... so, why not?

Well, sorry but I don't see the report between crying a father that she has raised at the level of a God (besides, she felt responsible for his death, because it was her who piloted the shuttle when the accident occurred, accident which not only killed her father but, her fiancé, Justin, too -> three aboard, she was the only one to have survived and worst, she had witnessed their agony without being able to intervene due to her injuries (cf to Mosaic by Jeri Taylor). I guess that this traumatizing episode can explain her temporary carelessness) and the fact of needing a man at her side.
Of course, she wants to be loved for the woman she is and, respected for the function she occupies but, the man's attention shouldn't divert her of her mission. On Voyager, she was the Capitain of a vessel of about 147 souls and her unique goal was to bring back the vessel and its occupants safe and sound on Earth (there too, she feels responsible for having made a decision - which seemed fair to her in Caretaker but, which pulled her and his crew, in an endless journey, far from their friends & families, and with some very hostile species which surrounded them). To have a relationship with a man aboard Voyager could have distracted her from her task and this would have been inadmissible for her.

 

[Kor]

It seemed to me that Chakotay and janeway had a much better chemistry going on between them than him and seven. I just wonder why he chose her over janeway.

It was explained in the missing, secret, unreleased 7 1/2th season that took place before the events of "Endgame."

Kor

 

[2takesfrakes]

Firstly, I'm not used to hold esteem in fictional characters. I only respect real people that I know or whose the life experiences are exceptional.

In these words, Ghislaine, I am well-pleased.

Secondly, I like the characters having a multi-facet [...] I regret that the character of Chakotay was one-sided in constrast, while he was so rich (were producers too shy to develop this character? Did they doubt of Beltran's acting on the length? I don't know but the result was disappointing and god knows how much I tried to like Chakotay. It would have been preferable that he continues to lead his Maquis crew and tension with Janeway/Tuvok/Paris be more pronounced to keep interest around his character. With the arrival of Seven and the development of the Doctor, he was completely relegated to the background, while he was supposed to be one of the main characters.

Robert Beltran is a fine actor and I'm a fan of the character Chakotay. Having said that, it did seem that VOY's writing staff actively sought every opportunity to embarrass themselves with demonstrations of just how ignorant they were of Native American culture. It's not without possibility that they didn't want to dig their grave any deeper and simply gave him less to do. But I don't know anything of why Chakotay decreased in importance to the show. It was a mistake, though, that's for sure.

Well, sorry but I don't see the report between crying a father that she has raised at the level of a God (besides, she felt responsible for his death, because it was her who piloted the shuttle when the accident occurred, accident which not only killed her father but, her fiancé, Justin, too -> three aboard, she was the only one to have survived and worst, she had witnessed their agony without being able to intervene due to her injuries (cf to Mosaic by Jeri Taylor). I guess that this traumatizing episode can explain her temporary carelessness) and the fact of needing a man at her side.

This seems like backpedalling by Jeri Taylor, to me, like it occurred to her later, after the fact, of what "Coda" should've had her 'father' say on his drowning incident. I won't comment further, because - obviously - "Mosaic" has her credentials. But for me, personally, I don't consider the book to be canon.

Of course, she wants to be loved for the woman she is and, respected for the function she occupies but, the man's attention shouldn't divert her of her mission. On Voyager, she was the Capitain of a vessel of about 147 souls and her unique goal was to bring back the vessel and its occupants safe and sound on Earth (there too, she feels responsible for having made a decision - which seemed fair to her in Caretaker but, which pulled her and his crew, in an endless journey, far from their friends & families, and with some very hostile species which surrounded them). To have a relationship with a man aboard Voyager could have distracted her from her task and this would have been inadmissible for her.

Ghislaine, we both know Janeway's reasoning for her continued celibacy, both within the context of the show ... and the cause outside of it, as well. But stories are magic, are they not? What can't happen in Life seems perfectly natural, when written in a book, or into a script for television, or a movie. Kathryn's objections were most easily gotten around, had Mulgrew, in particular, wanted them to.

In short, Janeway's justifications were only valid until she changed her mind. Not only would it have not affected her command abilities, it would've decreased stress. Improved muscle tone. Her overall disposition would've improved, which would've improved her rapport with the crew. I submit to you, in fact, that Janeway would've become an even better Captain, had she availed herself of all a Man has to offer. That Man should've been Chakotay ...

 

[Sophie74656]

Dr. Beverly Crusher's deceased Husband Jack continues to factor into TNG, even though Bev's been a widow long before we first met her on the show. And whilst they were married, Jack made passionate love to his beautiful wife and he was not shooting blanks. Picard was Jack's best friend. It is in TNG, where Picard tells Crusher that, because of his friendship and loyalty to Jack, he could never act on feelings for her. Retroactively, this excludes any possibility of Picard being the father of her only child - Jack's son, Wesley. Bev and Picard were married, already, in an Alternative Timeline, and it wasn't focused on, there was no fuss made about it. In the Prime Universe, Picard & Crusher are platonic friends.

Wow! Dawson was almost as old as Mulgrew? That's incredible. Dawson looks so much younger, so much more beautiful than Mulgrew. Roxann had some very good genes! But if you want to believe that Paris & Janeway could've had a fling, then I won't deny you it. But for myself, I view it from a different perspective. The fact that you hold Seven in greater esteem than you do Chakotay puzzles me. She was just thrown in for T&A, surely you can't compare that with Chakotay's contributions to the saga! And as for Janeway not needing a Man, well ... we are talking about the same woman who hid in her room for the better part of a year, because her Daddy died. Let her legs and armpits get hairy. Her nails grow long. And bathed infrequently, until her sister got her out of that rutt ... so, why not?

I saw Roxann at a con about a month ago. She looks amazing! I hope to look half as good when I'm that age

 

[2takesfrakes]

I haven't seen recent photos of her, but I've seen her convention photos from past years and she always looked beautiful. If she's been getting 'work' done on her, all along, I could never tell that. She just seemed to maintain her natural beauty, somehow. Again, I've not seen her, recently. I'm hoping you're right about her, now, because Kate Mulgrew's similar in age and ... wow ... different story there, altogether. Completely different story ...

 

[Catarina]

I haven't seen recent photos of her.

2015:

 

[2takesfrakes]

It's reassuring to know that Roxann's aging gracefully. You can just tell that she was a smokin' hottie in her day. She's taken very good care of herself and I do hope that women around the world find inspiration, because of her. A very lovely lady. Thanks, Catarina!

 

[Sophie74656]

I have such a lady crush on her. I actually got to speak to her very briefly and after I stepped away I fangirled so hard

 

[Sophie74656]

Voyager cast from this past September

 

[Catarina]

I have such a lady crush on her. I actually got to speak to her very briefly and after I stepped away I fangirled so hard

I would too. She's really something.

 

[LJones41]

I submit to you, in fact, that Janeway would've become an even better Captain, had she availed herself of all a Man has to offer. That Man should've been Chakotay ...

So, would Picard have become a better commander if he had a relationship with Riker . . . or Dr. Crusher? Would Kirk's stint as a captain would have been better if he and Spock had a romance (be still Kirk/Spock shippers' hearts)? What about Sisko and Kira? Would he have become a better station commander if he had romanced Kira? Does the same goes for Archer and his relationship with T'Pol?

Or are you trying to say that only Janeway "needed to romance her first officer in order to be a better captain? If you're implying this, I cannot help but struggle not to throw up from such a sexist suggestion.

Speaking of sexism, why is it so important that Roxann Dawson managed to look younger than her actual age (58)? Why put down Kate Mulgrew, who is 61, for failing to do the same? Is it still important in our society that women try to retain a façade of physical youthfulness as long as possible? No wonder so many women with money - especially in the entertainment business - keep running to the nearest plastic surgeon.

 

[2takesfrakes]

[A]re you trying to say that only Janeway "needed to romance her first officer in order to be a better captain? If you're implying this, I cannot help but struggle not to throw up from such a sexist suggestion.

I've never judged Janeway harshly, because she's a female Captain in STAR TREK. In fact, I never noticed it, really. The first female Captain was in STAR TREK IV, if I'm not too mistaken. And TNG was up to its ... brass ... in female Captains & Admirals. Janeway was already late to that party and I never gave a shit about her "first." I like Mulgrew, she's a fine actress and I like Janeway. With my "she needs romance" comment, I stand by that. Her swinging from a celibate rope for King & Country was silly. The reason(s) for it were only valid, until she changed her mind about it. That's how relevant they were. And when she did change her mind, if ever, Chakotay would be there - ready ... willing ... and able. In the meantime, healthily, Chakotay kept his options open. What a shame Kellin couldn't have become permanent. VOY had made the match, there ...

Why put down Kate Mulgrew [?]

 

[Sophie74656]

So, would Picard have become a better commander if he had a relationship with Riker . . . or Dr. Crusher? Would Kirk's stint as a captain would have been better if he and Spock had a romance (be still Kirk/Spock shippers' hearts)? What about Sisko and Kira? Would he have become a better station commander if he had romanced Kira? Does the same goes for Archer and his relationship with T'Pol?

Or are you trying to say that only Janeway "needed to romance her first officer in order to be a better captain? If you're implying this, I cannot help but struggle not to throw up from such a sexist suggestion.

Speaking of sexism, why is it so important that Roxann Dawson managed to look younger than her actual age (58)? Why put down Kate Mulgrew, who is 61, for failing to do the same? Is it still important in our society that women try to retain a façade of physical youthfulness as long as possible? No wonder so many women with money - especially in the entertainment business - keep running to the nearest plastic surgeon.

I don't think anyone was putting Kate down. It seems like people are surprised to hear of Roxann's age because she appears to look younger than that.

 

[2takesfrakes]

... Essato!

The kettle's on. Let's be friends ...

 

[2takesfrakes]

This was an accidental duplicate post, so I'm just adding this smashing photograph of Kate Mulgrew, from back in the day ... to view ... to admire ...

 

[TheSubCommander]

They were struck on a planet together, alone, with no hope of getting off it. Chakotay built her a bathtub, cooked her dinner, and gave her backrubs. Janeway never stopped trying to get off the planet.

I think she made it pretty clear she didn't want anything to do with him romantically.

No kidding, right?! Janeway was far more interested in the space monkey, than Chuckles. Nothing says leave me alone louder than that. I never thought the two had any kind of chemistry, anyway. At all. So, it was a good decision to never pair them off. In fact, I am glad they never paired Janeway off with any of the crew.

Besides, I liked the idea, even if it were my own head canon, that Janeway was so racked with guilt for having stranded Voyager by ordering the destruction of the array (whether it was for the right reason or not), that she became obsessed with getting Voyager home, that she had no time or emotional energy for anything else, including a relationship. Sort of like Ahab, and her white whale was getting back home.

As for Chakotay/Seven, that was probably the WORST pairing off in Star Trek history, save for maybe Troi/Worf. Again, absolutely no chemistry between the two. When Seven debuted in Scorpion, Chakotay urged to kill her, and later tried to! Then for 3.5 seasons, they didn't really have much, if any contact. If there were any of the crew that had any kind of romantic build up, it was the Doctor. He even had a crush on her, and in the finale, he ends up with some generic wife, that looks a lot like Seven. But I wasn't even for a Doctor/Seven pairing off, either.

Really, if they wanted to have Seven have some kind of romantic happy ending, it should have been Axum, from the Unimatrix Zero episode.

 

[stardream]

Besides, I liked the idea, even if it were my own head canon, that Janeway was so racked with guilt for having stranded Voyager by ordering the destruction of the array (whether it was for the right reason or not), that she became obsessed with getting Voyager home, that she had no time or emotional energy for anything else, including a relationship. Sort of like Ahab, and her white whale was getting back home.

This is the way I've always viewed it.

Janeway being alone was fine with me. If you are a big J/C shipper then go read Byer's books but a warning...that's a real slow boil.

Personally, I admire Dawson for reasons other than she' looks so good for her age.' She's has gone on to be a very successful in-demand director. McNeil is now a producer...he joked that he really wanted Dawson to direct an episode of his show but she was always too busy! He did manage to snag Frakes for one.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

This was an accidental duplicate post, so I'm just adding this smashing photograph of Kate Mulgrew, from back in the day ... to view ... to admire ...

What a beautiful woman (and in every sense of the word, even if I don't share her political ideas), whether at 18 yo, 40yo or now at 61yo!!!

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

1) A character like Katherine Janeway doesn't need a man by her sides, whether it is Chakotay or whoever it is, to be a better commanding officer or a better person. She carved the life of herself to become who she is, someone mentally strong, exigent but fair, who handles the authority according to her interlocutors and that's why her crew and her peers respect her, wherever they come from DQ or AQ.

2) Starfleet has always been in Janeway's DNA and will be her life until her last breath (I don't know/understand why some authors killed her character or even, changed her in a Q, while I see her die a natural death). And that's totally ok for me because well, it arrives in the real life. Some people live for -and only - their work/passion, their love life is the least of their worries... though, thereafter, some regret - or not - their celibacy/the absence of offspring when they age).
-> of course, it doesn't prevent Janeway to have some human or holographic lovers but nothing rather serious to distract her from her job!

3) Finally, the fact that Janeway quickly made understand to Chakotay that, she wasn't interested in him, was rather an opportunity for the latter. The chance to meet the right person, a woman who would engage herself body and soul into an existence by his side but the thing is that Chakotay fell AGAIN into his old ways, by choosing the wrong person (Seven), for the wrong reasons (lust and ego). In the end, he will get dumped (before or after having had the opportunity to sleep with her) because I don't see how it could be otherwise there and besides, even the authors who staged a post-Voyager continuity felt it strongly BUT contrary to them, I see by no means J and C being together -> she was quite clear, in last seasons, about the fact that she saw him as a very good friend and no more. And I guess that Chakotay saw her in the same way at the end, what made incomprehensible his silence about his romance with Seven. I mean, she is not only a loyal and supportive friend but as capitain, she is his direct superior too and for the proper functioning of the crew, it was necessary that she is informed. He is her First Officer and Seven is her Astonomic Officer - even if officially she is a civilian -, .especially after Seven's crisis a while ago, when she made an emotional breakout, which has some harm, eyewitnessed by Janeway, Chakotay and the Doctor. And had still a long way to go before better controlling her emotions.

As I often said, I would be for ever grateful to Kate Mulgrew for having weighed heavily so that J/C was not made..., even if I know that it has frustrated more than one (I guess that if Jeri Taylor had stayed, the flirtation of the beginning - s1 to s3 - would have ended in a commitment in the finale as seeing as she has created the character of Chakotay and she was the 1st to have has pushed for a J/C romance but she was replaced by Brannon Braga who, with Rick Berman wanted that Janeway be as "inaccessible" as her males colleagues Kirk, Picard, Sisko - even if he ended remarried/father for the 2nd time - and Archer.
-> I remain persuaded that it's better to have no love story that a bad love one, which would appeared forced, like C/7 (even if there too, there are some shippers of this couple), Neelix/Kes, Riker/Troi or some couplings in Shonda Rhimes's productions, like Grey's Anatomy.
A very beautiful friendship between a woman and a man is often more interesting and satisfactory to follow than a romance between these same people, in my opinion.