Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?
- Thread starter Lorthos
- Start date
Youngsters and Oldsters, it makes no difference ...
Young males are often the target demographic in many thingsAnd of course, the young guys are the only part of the audience that matters.
(basic shit sorry)
Demographics = Appropriate Sponser.
Lots of boys watching = Companies that sell #### boys like.
Lots of old women watching = Companies that sell #### old women like.
whatever their demographic, there's a company that wants to sell to that demographic.
Demographics = Appropriate Sponser.
Lots of boys watching = Companies that sell #### boys like.
Lots of old women watching = Companies that sell #### old women like.
whatever their demographic, there's a company that wants to sell to that demographic.
That's right! Let's get some dealin' done, when STAR TREK's on ... and Kill 2 Birds with 1 Stone!
Jean-Luc wouldn't be caught dead with a woman old enough to be his wife.
There's a daft movement which thinks that young Wesley is Picard's son.
Oh, come one. On about 147 crew members, half had to be female so, if he really wanted to date for one-night stand or something more serious, he could just pick one and as he was a charming man, besides being the second-in-command, she would certainly not have said no. For example, Enseign Marla Gilmore, from USS Equinox with whom he had a good feeling. Plus, she was smart - although a little bit afraid -and rather attractive, wasn't she?
-> except Janeway - even after the break up with Mark Johnson - and Tuvok, who was married and loyal to his wife, all others certainly slept here and there (even Harry Kim) and I'm pretty sure that couples formed throughout these 7 years. It is just surprising - and even unthinkable - that after a so long journey, only Naomie Wildman and Miral Torres-Paris were born aboard Voyager. Or the Doctor was the most effective of the gynecologists or the concerned couples were jolly careful ... or maybe both!
Honestly, if producers and Mulgrew have decided to end definitively Janeway's celibacy in s7, Jaffen would have been the right choice (Janeway/Chakotay was over even before having begun after Resolutions so, no regret, IMHO). According to what I saw, he would have never "put in danger" her position, as well as Capitain of Voyager as Vice-Admiral at Starfleet HQ.
No, I didn't refer to Tom's age here but just the fact that Paris and Janeway shared a lot from the beginning (both arise from the same military seraglio, they excel in what they are doing, they know each other for a long time) and there was never any discomfort between them, as if they understood each other without needing a lot to tell : they met essentially on the bridge(deck) but even there, we can feel that they were at ease in their exchanges and they never miss a good chat, laugh together and even tease each other..., what others never dared to do with her, always keeping a respectful distance towards her!
Of course, as for Chakotay, it would have been unthinkable for Janeway* to dash into a romance with her pilot, who is lower ranked than her First Officer, but why not later, at the return of Voyager on Earth? Alas for me, B'Elena Torres appeared and it's with her that he committed a serious and long-lasting relationship! It is a pity at the end, the couple became boring, especially after to have found out that they were going to be parents!
*About Janeway, I remind you that this woman is full of principles, as we all know, and on no account, she would violate Starfleet regulations, especially one as secondary (due to their situation) as refraining to fraternize with a member of her crew, whatever his rank -> if Starfleet works like the armed forced of United States Military of 20th and 21th centuries, fraternization is considered like a violation of a subparagraph of art 134 of Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), and the commissionned or warrant officer accused of this insult can be court-martialed.
-> for Janeway, to have her whole brilliant carrier in Starfleet going up in smoke because of a secret love relationship aboard would have been a real mess, whether with Chakotay (even if his rank of Commander and his position of 1st officer were temporary - I know that in books, he is reinstalled as a commissionned officer and promoted Capitain... of Voyager, while in webseries, Renegades, he is a member of the Maquis or whatever the new name of the organizatio, again -, she was the commissionned officer here and so, responsible/accountable for her actions), than with Tom Paris (both being commissionned officers, with a direct hierarchical relationship, the sanction will be more severe).
I never understood the concept of "friends with benefits" to be honest, especially if it implies to use the friends as sexual object while waiting for better. Janeway and Chakotay (and Seven) deserve better than to be treated like that and in addition, it can be dangerous, especially if one of the two ends in falling in love with the other but the feeling isn't shared, changing suddenly the rules of the game. Can friendship survive when feelings are deeply hurt?
Nah, if it is just a question of sex, there is the holodeck to meet this need, like what was Michael Sullivan for Janeway (even if I keep wondering how she managed to have sex with a hologram!
) or even a holo-Chakotay for Seven ...if she had chosen this way to pursue her process of dating.
That is huge among shipers. In the new novels they are an married and have a baby
It's the meeting god argument.
You don't need faith if you have proof.
You don't need faith if you have proof.
Ghislaine, I will try - OK? - TRY to answer everything, but if I don't, or don't answer enough, you just tell me and I'll be happy to explain myself more fully ... alright? Right, then ... let's dig in!
Charm lasts for all of, like ... 15 minutes, or less, with most women. After that, the Man had better have a 3rd leg, or a thick wallet.
Chakotay was never particular about his women. If she was an adult female, she qualified.
Other Men might've been a better fit for Janeway, than Chakotay. But this is kind of where the show's nature as entertainment comes to the fore. We want Chakotay to get with Janeway because he's the Leading Man of the show and she's the Leading Lady. That's all. There's no logical reason for it. We just like it when the leads hook up - makes everything neat and tidy. But I am not say you are wrong - not at all.
Tom and Janeway had a very nice rapport, you're right about that and bring up good points about what they have in common. It may have even played out, I don't know. I've kind of lost my objectivity on it. In Before & After, of course, Kes' age doesn't seem to bother him. If I recall correctly, he even reached out to her, affectionately, which she recoiled from, not remembering their incredible Love. But Kes was young & beautiful when Tom first loved her. I do not see Janeway as being anything more than a very temporary tryst for Tom, out of curiousity, maybe. And if I ran the show I would not permit it in the series, for fear of ratings going South - like a duck in Winter.No, I didn't refer to Tom's age here but just the fact that Paris and Janeway shared a lot from the beginning (both arise from the same military seraglio, they excel in what they are doing, they know each other for a long time) and there was never any discomfort between them, as if they understood each other without needing a lot to tell : they met essentially on the bridge(deck) but even there, we can feel that they were at ease in their exchanges and they never miss a good chat, laugh together and even tease each other..., what others never dared to do with her, always keeping a respectful distance towards her!
Of course, as for Chakotay, it would have been unthinkable for Janeway* to dash into a romance with her pilot, who is lower ranked than her First Officer, but why not later, at the return of Voyager on Earth? Alas for me, B'Elena Torres appeared and it's with her that he committed a serious and long-lasting relationship! It is a pity at the end, the couple became boring, especially after to have found out that they were going to be parents!
Yes. Our Heroes having principles and doing The Right Thing, even at personal cost, is very important to the show and to the fans. We'd very much like to believe that those in a position to make a real difference in Life would be noble and honourable and fair and just. And it's a lonely place, in STAR TREK, to bare the burden of command. Yet ... No one ever wants to do without. Women, especially. Janeway's needs a Man's Love. But at what point does the strain become too great, until her very Humanity is put at risk. Her very womanhood. Duty & Obligation is not enough to fill her up.
Well ... in the show, it's hard to know how things might've panned out, had Janeway and Chakotay actually become Friends with Benefits. I can't see that part being adhered to with much consistency. One week they can't keep their hands off of eachother. The next they're all professional and distant. The week after that, one's jealous for getting with the alien of the week. So, it's hard to really nail that down, with certainty. But if you're asking in Life, about Friends with Benefits. Then no, I don't view it as treating their friend as a sex object. It's hard to be clear on this point. It's a matter of trust. And every relationship, really, is about what we "get out of it." If we're honest. I mean ... otherwise we'd just let them walk out of our lifes. Sex is just another perk of being friends with someone, when "benefits" are involved. And for some, yes, it might risk that friendship, but lots of things risk friendships - being a pain in the ass, is one of them. It just happens. But for the show, even if it's the only thing in common they have, why not let Chakotay and Janeway get it on? They're both adults ...
Honestly, it seems much more efficient to just masterbate in the privacy of one's own quarters, than to go through all of the song & dance of getting the Holodeck involved! But, I get the fantasy within the fantasy for our entertainment. I don't care for it, though. I see it as a crutch for bad writing - a never ending "it never really happened" kind of thing that's very hollow and ultimately, just "run out the clock" ... to pad the show.Nah, if it is just a question of sex, there is the holodeck to meet this need, like what was Michael Sullivan for Janeway (even if I keep wondering how she managed to have sex with a hologram!
Charm is ingenious patter.
The only reason charm works, is that women must like being lied to.
"No, you can't be Linda's mother, surely you are her sister... Her younger sister?"
Oh...
No ####ing way is Chuckles the leading man.
And finally...
Janeway under Owen Paris.
Depending on the relationship Owen and Kathy shared as co-workers, that would make Janeway most likely Tom's sister or step mother.
The only reason charm works, is that women must like being lied to.
"No, you can't be Linda's mother, surely you are her sister... Her younger sister?"
Oh...
No ####ing way is Chuckles the leading man.
And finally...
Janeway under Owen Paris.
Depending on the relationship Owen and Kathy shared as co-workers, that would make Janeway most likely Tom's sister or step mother.
Correct me if I'm wrong but are you confusing Picard's taste with Sir Patrick's?
Guy's already done the math on Captain Picard - you may wish to refer to his calculations! But to answer your question:
I was referring to The Good Captain and not his Real Life counterpart.
From the very beginning, Jean-Luc was living up to his reputation as a Frenchman, by scoring the youthful, vivacious and spirited Vash. She was a real beauty, as well ... but Picard generally had pretty good taste in women. Of course, he snagged Kamala in the episode, "Perfect Mate," another Man's delectable dish. Even the movies had Picard doing the rumba, because he secured a "Perfect Moment" with a Baku number named Anij. True, she was 300 years his senior ... but she looked a lot younger than Bev, so his reputation was secure. Jean-Luc Picard gave Number One a run for his money for the title of Resident Studd, aboard the USS Enterprise-D.
That haggard barfly Penny at Starbase Earhart?
Rende Rae Norman who played Penny from memory, in the episode Tapestry, I assumed was 50 from all the shit surrounding 21 year old, 5 minutes out of the academy, got into for questioning her youth when he'd gotten lucky with her in the original timeline...
SHE'S THIRTY-FIVE!!!!!
(Or, the actress, was 35 in 1993 when Tapestry aired.)
Picard is an asshole.
Rende Rae Norman who played Penny from memory, in the episode Tapestry, I assumed was 50 from all the shit surrounding 21 year old, 5 minutes out of the academy, got into for questioning her youth when he'd gotten lucky with her in the original timeline...
SHE'S THIRTY-FIVE!!!!!
(Or, the actress, was 35 in 1993 when Tapestry aired.)
Picard is an asshole.
I'd forgotten about Penny the Haggard Barfly, from Tapestry. As I recall, Picard might've mentioned something to Q about how Penny was reknown for refreshing the parts that other women miss. How about it, LJones41? It seems mutton is on Picard's menu, as well as lamb. I still maintain, however, that Penny was the exception and not the rule. Certainly, by the time we meet him and once Vash cast her spell upon him, that was it ... that was IT!!! She spoilt him.
Bravo you did it!
As I never felt that Janeway and Chakotay were made for each other, I was glad and pleasantly surprised to notice that the producers didn't give in to the pressure of J/C shippers. On the other hand, I hated that they associated Seven, one of the strongest female characters (with Janeway) with Chakotay, one of the weakest characters (with Harry Kim). It was just wrong.
As for Chakotay being the Leading man. well I'd say that he left little by little this role from the season 3 with the emergence of The Doctor, who stole the title of the Leading man. Seriously, in S6 and 7, we saw our angry warrior more in the background than to the fore, while Janeway's role hadn't been weakened.
Well, if Chakotay/Seven became a "fictional reality"
, I don't see why Janeway/Paris couldn't be! And at less, there would have been a certain logic with regard to Caretaker -> they began the journey together and they end it together...What is funny is that if Paris and Torres seemed to have the same age - even if I wonder if she wasn't younger than him - , the age gap between their performers, Dawson and McNeil, was of 6 years.(Dawson in 1958 and McNeil in 1964), while 9 years between Mulgrew (born in 1955) and McNeil, and that shocked no one.
Well, it seemed rather to me that Janeway especially needed to be respected from her crew and others species met. As for the fact that she needed a man's love. nope, I don't think so, even if she surely appreciated Chakotay's attention for awhile. On the other hand, that she looks for company, there is no doubt and that is why, she shared so much dinners with Chakotay and discussions with Seven, after her shifts. I guess that the solitude of the capitaincy had to weigh her.
Sorry but, instead of using a hologram to have sex, Janeway could have as well, replicated a sexual object. With Michael Sullivan, it was a kind of disguised masturbation with the lack of emotions, like love and/or passion.
Just a question about Picard and Crusher, did they end together? I remember to have read that she had a teenage son...
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