Starfleet as the Military...

[CaptainDonovin]

I've always been of the opinion they were part military. All you have to do is watch the battle scenes during the Dominion War, there were a lot of ships there that were built for exploration armed to the teeth & fighting. They're primary mission may be exploration but there is at least some military part to the job.

 

[Paradise City]

Excepting that they operate in space, what else does starfleet do that historically militaries didn't?

My argument isn't that they do different stuff, it's just their priorities are different. ,

 

[Nyotarules]

I think one of the advantages of doing Discovery as a reboot, would be the fact that they could finally make Starfleet a purely exploration outfit. As opposed to having officers running around saying they aren't the military when Starfleet clearly has been throughout the franchise.

If so, then they will need another organisation that is military and there should be no scenes of battles with Klingons and explorers.

 

[BillJ]

...and there should be no scenes of battles with Klingons and explorers.

Starfleet not being the military wouldn't preclude them from defending themselves in skirmishes with Federation enemies.

 

[Nyotarules]

For the Federation, Starfleet is warriors, janitors, uber, UPS, negotiators, and ditch diggers.

The military aspect of Starfleet will alway be it's first duty, but all the other things that Starfleet does likely takes more of the it time.

The Enterprise was a warship with science labs, not a science ship with weapons.

Exactly the fact the USS Grisson was a much smaller science vessel says it all. They even have medical ships so what is the Enterprise if not the defence arm of the fleet?

 

[Nyotarules]

Starfleet not being the military wouldn't preclude them from defending themselves in skirmishes with Federation enemies.

Skirmish is one thing, but all out war? Battle scene - The Enterprise get its ass out of dodge and lets the military fight. Oops it does not.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The problem is we're inundated with way too many people saying Starfleet definitely is not military to the point that it has even become a pivotal plot point in the two most recent movies despite the fact they are organized as a military and behave exactly like one.

Thank you. There's a faction of ST fans who have been quite aggressive in trying to erase the military nature of Starfleet from franchise history; its clearly the structure of TOS/TAS, & TOS movies (with the exception of TMP...and that explains much about that film), so there should be no confusion about how Starfleet works--particularly in a prequel period.

 

[fireproof78]

Starfleet not being the military wouldn't preclude them from defending themselves in skirmishes with Federation enemies.

But they are often sent to counter Klingon aggression. It's not always about defense, I don't think. The Enterprise seems to serve in a multi-faceted role, and Kirk, in response to Kor, refers to himself as " a soldier."

 

[BillJ]

But they are often sent to counter Klingon aggression. It's not always about defense, I don't think. The Enterprise seems to serve in a multi-faceted role, and Kirk, in response to Kor, refers to himself as " a soldier."

I like Starfleet being the military. I was musing more for those folks who took Picard's statements about them not being the military seriously.

 

[fireproof78]

I like Starfleet being the military. I was musing more for those folks who took Picard's statements about them not being the military seriously.

Sorry, I misread. I think I missed the context
Carry on

 

[BillJ]

Sorry, I misread. I think I missed the context
Carry on

At the same time, Starfleet not being the military might open up some interesting story angles and ability to work with enemy species.

 

[fireproof78]

At the same time, Starfleet not being the military might open up some interesting story angles and ability to work with enemy species.

I always go back to the idea of a "combined service." That they have multiple facets that allow them to work in a variety of ways. Being a military doesn't preclude that option either. It just means that one facet gets emphasized at certain times.

 

[Tallguy]

Thank you. There's a faction of ST fans who have been quite aggressive in trying to erase the military nature of Starfleet from franchise history; its clearly the structure of TOS/TAS, & TOS movies (with the exception of TMP...and that explains much about that film), so there should be no confusion about how Starfleet works--particularly in a prequel period.

I strenuously object (because I need a life) to TMP not being used as a data point here. I'd argue that Starfleet is in many ways more military than TOS. TMP added a dedicated weapons console, put it's security guards in body armor, and goes to a much more navy gray color scheme (Bones' chest hair notwithstanding.) The titles and forms of address among the officers and crew are much more formal than TOS. Meyer may have taken TWOK back to Hornblower but Wise and Roddenberry put the crew on the modern day Nimitz.

In the novel many of Kirk's internal musings have to do with defense. When the Enterprise is hit with the first whiplash bolt Kirk's first thought is "If I get out of this I have to report back to Nogura what an effective weapon this deafening sound is!"

 

[Nyotarules]

Reboot Scotty got so drunk when he signed up he thought it was The Galactic Merchant Navy named Starfleet hence his denial

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Starfleet not being the military wouldn't preclude them from defending themselves in skirmishes with Federation enemies.

We're not just talking about border skirmishes here, but rather full-out war. This has happened before in Trek (the Klingons, Cardassians, Dominion, Borg), and it will happen again.

Remember what I just said; only a military can fight wars.

Edit: What @fireproof78 said. Starfleet is military...when it needs to be.

 

[Tenacity]

Starfleet not being the military wouldn't preclude them from defending themselves in skirmishes with Federation enemies.

It would be hard to imagine a modern oceanographic research vessel doing anything to a Arleigh Burke class destroyer.

 

[Ralphis]

To me, it has always made sense to just think of Starfleet as a hybrid organization. It makes sense to me that an organization dealing with deep space exploration, first contact missions and diplomatic missions ought to be at least quasi-military so that they can defend themselves if something goes wrong. And at the same time, it makes sense to me that these ships and crews would be called on to defend against certain threats.

Now, it's always been my assumption that Starfleet vessels all have their own specific missions. Maybe Discovery's mission could just be exploration, and exploration only? A... [long dramatic pause]... FIVE year mission? Reboot TOS without actually rebooting it? Just throwing that out there. =)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I seem to remember reading once that Gene Roddenberry suggested that the TOS Enterprise carried a platoon of Starfleet Marines. Of course we never saw them (dammit) but it's interesting to consider.

 

[Spot261]

To me, it has always made sense to just think of Starfleet as a hybrid organization. It makes sense to me that an organization dealing with deep space exploration, first contact missions and diplomatic missions ought to be at least quasi-military so that they can defend themselves if something goes wrong. And at the same time, it makes sense to me that these ships and crews would be called on to defend against certain threats.

Now, it's always been my assumption that Starfleet vessels all have their own specific missions. Maybe Discovery's mission could just be exploration, and exploration only? A... [long dramatic pause]... FIVE year mission? Reboot TOS without actually rebooting it? Just throwing that out there. =)

I'd like to think that, but the appearance of the ship, the balance of terror references, the unspecified "Tos era event", the seeming covert base in the teaser all imply a covert military/diplomatic background to discovery.

 

[Lance]

I've always been of the opinion they were part military. All you have to do is watch the battle scenes during the Dominion War, there were a lot of ships there that were built for exploration armed to the teeth & fighting. They're primary mission may be exploration but there is at least some military part to the job.

True, but that still leaves my point earlier that, both historically and in the current day, militaries do more than just fight.....

I've never understood this argument within Trek fandom that the word 'military' is synonymous with some kind of pulled-up-at-the-bootstraps-battle-ready-attack-force-on-the-verge-of-war. Real life militaries are more than that. Starfleet is more than that, too.

In my mind, it just isn't an either/or proposition. Starfleet is a military, with a wide ranging set of mission parameters. Sometimes that's "exploration/research/science", other times it's balls-to-the-floor attack scenarios. Neither means it isn't a military. There's no such thing as a 'part-military'.