Lauren's southern accent is nails on a chalk board bad.
Spoilers DC's Legends of Tomorrow - Season 2
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Do white actors from other countries playing Americans, raise any alarms? If not, then, Jax's actor's in the same boat as them...
I'm recalling the recent stink about the casting of Exodus of Kings where an Australian was cast as the King of Egypt and Christian Bale was Moses... But the movie turned out to be a bomb, so maybe the world knows better now?
Not really the point.
Imagine how it sounds to actual Americans.
That's not the same thing. Not even close.
I found that to be a surprisingly good and interesting episode. Out of the whole Arrowverse, how come the two most campy shows that usually indulge most in the ridiculous and silly, happen to have episodes that go utterly serious and want to smack you into the reality? That includes the alien bar on Supergirl last weeks.
A crew with a criminal/supervillain who likes to kill people and set things on fire, and serious historical topics is a strange mix. It almost seems fitting in a time and place where the right thing was against the law, and the good people were the outlaws. A place and time where the model citizens whom the law protected have done things far worse than Mick Rory, and one time where history wouldn't look back on you with reproach if you set a slave plantation of fire. I'm not sure if him having an off day being a zombie was a bad or a good thing. I prefer him to be himself.
When I personally envisioned a squadron from the future crashing the Civil War, I wanted them to interact with the actual two sides in the war, who are themselves engaged in the actual war, and have the future guys tiptoe between doing the right thing, not altering history, reversing the interference that has already been done and not getting killed/captured. Leading the Union Army into an assault on mindless zombies dressed as confederates wouldn't have been my first choice, nor does it let you explore the conflict from an unusual perspective by juxtaposing it against future humanity. That said, there was something so awesome about the presence of Sara Lance there, and I cannot put into words. It was a real something.
I'm not the right person to comment on the depiction of slavery, but it was bizarre how severed heads and bodies incinerated in a de jure suicide bombing were OK to show, but we looked away the moment nasty sides of history were to be seen. I'm not saying it's wrong – a fake roasted zombie does far less to me emotionally than the mere thought of the real human suffering that happened off-camera, so it makes sense. Even Jax's verbal interaction with the slave owner was more disturbing to me than the corpses. And his (c)overt mission, especially given the mindset he set off with, was much more unnerving than zombies coming after you. Amaya coming to rescue him was written on the wall from the moment he stepped into the house.
Everything not related to zombies felt unprecedentedly real-worldly in contrast.
P.S. Have only seen half of Season 1 so far, so if that's not the first mid-19th century America episode, my bad. But given Jax's attitude, I'd be surprised if it wasn't.
A crew with a criminal/supervillain who likes to kill people and set things on fire, and serious historical topics is a strange mix. It almost seems fitting in a time and place where the right thing was against the law, and the good people were the outlaws. A place and time where the model citizens whom the law protected have done things far worse than Mick Rory, and one time where history wouldn't look back on you with reproach if you set a slave plantation of fire. I'm not sure if him having an off day being a zombie was a bad or a good thing. I prefer him to be himself.
When I personally envisioned a squadron from the future crashing the Civil War, I wanted them to interact with the actual two sides in the war, who are themselves engaged in the actual war, and have the future guys tiptoe between doing the right thing, not altering history, reversing the interference that has already been done and not getting killed/captured. Leading the Union Army into an assault on mindless zombies dressed as confederates wouldn't have been my first choice, nor does it let you explore the conflict from an unusual perspective by juxtaposing it against future humanity. That said, there was something so awesome about the presence of Sara Lance there, and I cannot put into words. It was a real something.
I'm not the right person to comment on the depiction of slavery, but it was bizarre how severed heads and bodies incinerated in a de jure suicide bombing were OK to show, but we looked away the moment nasty sides of history were to be seen. I'm not saying it's wrong – a fake roasted zombie does far less to me emotionally than the mere thought of the real human suffering that happened off-camera, so it makes sense. Even Jax's verbal interaction with the slave owner was more disturbing to me than the corpses. And his (c)overt mission, especially given the mindset he set off with, was much more unnerving than zombies coming after you. Amaya coming to rescue him was written on the wall from the moment he stepped into the house.
Everything not related to zombies felt unprecedentedly real-worldly in contrast.
P.S. Have only seen half of Season 1 so far, so if that's not the first mid-19th century America episode, my bad. But given Jax's attitude, I'd be surprised if it wasn't.
In Supergirl's case, it's hard for it not to be political, because it kind of has feminist themes built into its very premise, not to mention LGBT allegory with all the stuff about "coming out" as a superheroine. And a show centered on alien characters living among humans naturally lends itself to allegory about racism and immigration, especially given the current political climate.
In the case of Legends, their strongest "message episodes" have been ones set in America's past. It's hard to do stories set in such times without addressing their injustices, particularly given that the show's ensemble includes a lesbian (or bi) character and a couple of people of color.
Besides, a sense of humor is a sign of intelligence. You often find that the most thought-provoking shows are also the funniest -- M*A*S*H, The West Wing, anything by Joss Whedon.
Yes, exactly. Over-the-top fantasy violence that would never happen is one thing; a depiction of a real act of violence that was routinely inflicted on the ancestors of millions of Americans is something much traumatic.
It is, but they did a 1950s episode last season (directed by Joe Dante) that addressed the racism and homophobia of the era (though the racist treatment Jax endured there was rather toned down compared to the likely reality).
By the way, I'm glad that General Grant didn't understand the term "zombie," but Nate wasn't telling the whole story by saying Americans wouldn't know about it for 70 years. Yes, the concept was popularized in the US starting with a 1929 book and zombie movies in the 1930s, but they were based on a more accurate use of the term "zombie," referring to the Caribbean/West African belief in the walking dead as entranced slaves of a vodoun priest. The modern "Romero zombies," decaying hordes spreading an infection and threatening a worldwide apocalypse, didn't emerge until 1968 and wasn't actually called that until years later (Romero based Night of the Living Dead loosely on Richard Matheson's vampire novel I Am Legend and called his creatures "ghouls"). And the trope of zombies eating brains didn't originate until 1985. It's surprising to me how young modern zombie lore is, and how quickly it's come to be seen as definitive. (But then, the idea of vampires burning up in sunlight only dates from 1920s film and the idea of the full moon transforming werewolves dates from a 1940s film, and those became definitive pretty quickly too.)
They must have realized it's only an hour-long show.
I thought he was oddly specific there, after dropping his second reference to two centuries / 200 years for something that was really more like 150. (Though it's debatable when he considers gender equality to have started...presumably by his own time.)
I thought I'd reviewed last week's episode, but apparently I hadn't, so I'm going to make up for lost ground by saying that, because it had little to do with the overall storyline of the season, I found "Shogun" merely an "okay" episode on the whole, although I did like the character interactions and the introduction of the ancient Yamashiro family.
This week's episode was better, and I honestly found myself not minding that it had little to nothing to do with the overall narrative of the season, mainly because I liked the way that everybody in the main cast got something to do and we got some focus on characters that we haven't seen a whole lot of lately, like Jax. I also liked the basic concept of zombies running amok during the Civil War more than the idea of a Japanese Shogun stealing Ray's suit (even though my paternal ancestry is Japanese), and thought it made for some fun interactions.
Also, did anybody besides me get the feeling that we might've met one of Amaya and Mari's ancestors during this episode in the form of that female slave who recognized Amaya's amulet?
Arrow and Legends 'righted' their respective ships this week and are back on track, which makes me happy as a fan of the overall Arrowverse, and here's hoping that we don't have any more instances of 'backsliding'.
This week's episode was better, and I honestly found myself not minding that it had little to nothing to do with the overall narrative of the season, mainly because I liked the way that everybody in the main cast got something to do and we got some focus on characters that we haven't seen a whole lot of lately, like Jax. I also liked the basic concept of zombies running amok during the Civil War more than the idea of a Japanese Shogun stealing Ray's suit (even though my paternal ancestry is Japanese), and thought it made for some fun interactions.
Also, did anybody besides me get the feeling that we might've met one of Amaya and Mari's ancestors during this episode in the form of that female slave who recognized Amaya's amulet?
Arrow and Legends 'righted' their respective ships this week and are back on track, which makes me happy as a fan of the overall Arrowverse, and here's hoping that we don't have any more instances of 'backsliding'.
Indirectly at best, since it's doubtful she went back to Zambesi after being liberated. Since it's evidently a relatively small village, though, there's a good chance they have some shared ancestry.
Amaya is first generation from Africa, so it could be a relative, but not an ancestor.
^ Where did you get that information from (re: Amaya)? I don't remember it being said onscreen.
####ing ninja.
They said she defended the village back home, and then she was conscripted into the JSA.
That doesn't sound like she has even started on the road to citizen ship, unless there were war powers that transferred/created citizenship with a single document.
Although can you be in the US army as well as a foreigner with zero paperwork?
They said she defended the village back home, and then she was conscripted into the JSA.
That doesn't sound like she has even started on the road to citizen ship, unless there were war powers that transferred/created citizenship with a single document.
Although can you be in the US army as well as a foreigner with zero paperwork?
^ I don't know how or why, but I missed her saying she came straight to America from Africa as a "first generation immigrant".
She said in "Shogun" last week that the JSA found her in the Zambesi village in Africa. We also knew from the Vixen webseries last year that Mari McCabe's mother -- Amaya's daughter -- came from Zambesi, not the US. So we've known from the beginning that Amaya must have returned home to Africa to start a family after her time with the JSA. So she's not really an immigrant, at least not a permanent one.
Which means, by the way, that the Legends had better make extra-sure they don't get Amaya killed, because that could wipe Mari out of existence, and then she wouldn't be able to help Oliver against Damien Darhk that one time, and that might've led to Darhk succeeding in destroying the world, for all we know.
If the show followed the rules of the first season shouldn't Mari already been erased from existence? When the Legends went into the future they saw a timeline in which they disappeared after 2016 when they left with Rip. Would traveling in time create a new timeline in which Amaya disappeared after she left 1942? Obviously they could restore things when she returns to her time.
I have no idea if they are applying that approach to Amaya at all. It is interesting that so far none of the Legends have mentioned Mari. In the webseries we know at least Ray has met her. It makes sense that he would not disclose what he knows to her about her own future. But it's surprising that he has not discussed his knowledge of her family with the others. Maybe that is still coming.
I have no idea if they are applying that approach to Amaya at all. It is interesting that so far none of the Legends have mentioned Mari. In the webseries we know at least Ray has met her. It makes sense that he would not disclose what he knows to her about her own future. But it's surprising that he has not discussed his knowledge of her family with the others. Maybe that is still coming.
Last edited:
I'm not sure, but the alternate future they saw in "Star City 2046" seemed to result from a malfunction aboard the Waverider. So maybe they kinda crossed streams into a potential future, and it didn't represent a normal situation.
I still wish they could reconcile Cisco coining the name "Vixen" in the webseries with it being a hereditary name in LoT season 2. Maybe he read something somewhere about Amaya's WWII career as Vixen, subconsciously remembered it, and only thought he coined it himself?
I saw a viewer suggest on Facebook that Cisco unknowingly Vibed that her name should be Vixen. Of course that would had to been before he even knew he had those powers. So I am not completely convinced that is a satisfying fix for that inconsistency.
But Vixen season 1 took place shortly after the Flash's first time travel undid Cisco's death at Reverse Flash's hands (well, hand, literally), and as I recall, Cisco first started getting vibes shortly after that, without understanding what they were. So he could've vibed something about Mari's ancestry without realizing it.
Similar threads
