Babylon 5
- Thread starter Kail
- Start date
Overall, Season 5 is superior to Season 1.
Its first first half is pretty weak though.
Its first first half is pretty weak though.
Day of the Dead 'I thought it was a metaphor' Lochley was a riot. I liked the character changes she went through from the very straight laced Earth Force officer dubious about the place and the crew to finally understanding that there'a lot out there in space no rule book can prepare you for. Also, the working relationship between her and Corwin was filled with funny moments. Him casually grabbing food off her plate in one early scene was a good one. Years under Ivanova took a lot of fear out of him dealing with other officers.
In my rewatch and a friend's first time viewing we just went through "Confessions and Lamentations", "Divided Loyalties", and "The Long, Twilight Struggle". Some of the show's finest hours I dare say, especially for this early in the series, and watching those three in particular in a single night. Wow.
The funny thing is, I got into B5 in early-mid S3, so I had very different opinions of Londo and G'kar from everyone I knew who had gotten hooked on the show earlier in its run.
The funny thing is, I got into B5 in early-mid S3, so I had very different opinions of Londo and G'kar from everyone I knew who had gotten hooked on the show earlier in its run.
My standard 20-year-old analysis of the argument:
Since it's true that jms pitched B5 to Paramount, who then later came up with the very similar DS9 premise, I would not doubt that someone at Paramount said "That was an interesting premise, but instead of paying this guy for it, let's have our people develop something similar, and make it in the Trek universe." It's not hard to believe that could happen in the cut-throat shark-infested entertainment business. And I'm convinced that the two universes "borrowed" ideas from each other along the way as the shows went on.
BUT - the end result was that we got two of the best sci fi TV series EVER, so what the hell.
Since it's true that jms pitched B5 to Paramount, who then later came up with the very similar DS9 premise, I would not doubt that someone at Paramount said "That was an interesting premise, but instead of paying this guy for it, let's have our people develop something similar, and make it in the Trek universe." It's not hard to believe that could happen in the cut-throat shark-infested entertainment business. And I'm convinced that the two universes "borrowed" ideas from each other along the way as the shows went on.
BUT - the end result was that we got two of the best sci fi TV series EVER, so what the hell.
This is one of my favorite summations of the "conspiracy theory" that so often gets bandied about.
As for 'cutthroat shark-infested businesses'? JMS isn't exactly above that sort of thing either. Remember when Robert Foxworth appeared on DS9? JMS got so pissed that he killed off Foxworth's B5 character (General Hague)...
(I don't know if JMS knew, or cared, that it wasn't Foxworth's fault this happened - it was his agent who double booked him on B5 and DS9 at the same time and Foxworth couldn't possibly do both, so he had to pick one or the other. He happened to choose DS9 because it was a two-part episode - Homefront/Paradise Lost.)
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Given that we never saw the one-shot characters from "Severed Dreams" in any succeeding episodes, I'm not sure why it was such a big deal to have Foxworth in the episode in any case. Yes, seeing him would have been a bit preferable to meeting Major Ryan, who never shows up again in any case, but it's not as though we have much reason to think, based on how the show proceeded, that Hague was going to have more of a part to play.
Is there any evidence to suggest that there were further plans for Hague?
Is there any evidence to suggest that there were further plans for Hague?
I'm not sure I'd characterise killing off Hague as "getting pissy" so much as a necessary adjustment for the plot to continue logically. Up until that point, Hague was shown to be a the highest ranking officer in this counter-conspiracy (he was a JCoS) and the one Sheridan reported to directly.
If the actor couldn't for whatever reason reprise the role then they either have to recast the role or otherwise account for his absence. Recasting was certasinly viable as they've done it elsewhere at least twice, but it's hardly necessary given the role the character is meant to fill (as opposed to Drall & Anna who had to do things that only Drall and Anna can do.)
Since this is all happening in the middle of a purge and the first shots fired in a civil war just talking about him being elsewhere without being directly involved would be weird. Not only was killing him off practical from a production standpoint, it was necessary for the plot and the more dramatically interesting way to handle it.
If the actor couldn't for whatever reason reprise the role then they either have to recast the role or otherwise account for his absence. Recasting was certasinly viable as they've done it elsewhere at least twice, but it's hardly necessary given the role the character is meant to fill (as opposed to Drall & Anna who had to do things that only Drall and Anna can do.)
Since this is all happening in the middle of a purge and the first shots fired in a civil war just talking about him being elsewhere without being directly involved would be weird. Not only was killing him off practical from a production standpoint, it was necessary for the plot and the more dramatically interesting way to handle it.
There could have been any number of reasons why Hague wasn't in "Severed Dreams". They didn't have to kill him off.
Although I wouldn't have read anything sinister into it, if JMS hadn't openly admitted doing it because he was angry at Foxworth (although they must have reconciled later on, as Foxworth appeared on Jericho).
And as I said, none of this was Foxworth's fault, it was his agent who double-booked him - plus, since the DS9 eps were a two parter, it earned Foxworth a bigger paycheck than "Severed Dreams" would have. So from Foxworth's perspective, the choice was clear. You'd think JMS could see that.
Although I wouldn't have read anything sinister into it, if JMS hadn't openly admitted doing it because he was angry at Foxworth (although they must have reconciled later on, as Foxworth appeared on Jericho).
And as I said, none of this was Foxworth's fault, it was his agent who double-booked him - plus, since the DS9 eps were a two parter, it earned Foxworth a bigger paycheck than "Severed Dreams" would have. So from Foxworth's perspective, the choice was clear. You'd think JMS could see that.
Except that since B5 *knew* that they'd need Hague specifically for that episode, they'd booked him well in advance and arranged the shooting schedule based on dates they were assured he'd be available (per the B5 script books). Regardless of who did the booking, the honorable thing to do would have been to honor the first commitment. Yeah, two episodes is more money and actors have to eat but it was still pretty sleazy.As for 'cutthroat shark-infested businesses'? JMS isn't exactly above that sort of thing either. Remember when Robert Foxworth appeared on DS9? JMS got so pissed that he killed off Foxworth's B5 character (General Hague)...
(I don't know if JMS knew, or cared, that it wasn't Foxworth's fault this happened - it was his agent who double booked him on B5 and DS9 at the same time and Foxworth couldn't possibly do both, so he had to pick one or the other. He happened to choose DS9 because it was a two-part episode - Homefront/Paradise Lost.)
As for JMS killing the character out of spite, It's worth noting that despite that, he hired Foxworth for a recurring role in "Jeremiah" a few years later.
I thought it was pretty funny that when they were casting Major Ryan, they asked for one actor named McGill but got a different one (they wanted Everett, but got Bruce). 
It's a fair bet he was slated to die sooner or later, otherwise it would have been difficult to feature Sheridan as the de facto leader of the resistance fleet later on down the line.
If I had to guess, I think what happened to Hiroshi and the Churchill was originally meant for Hague. That however raises the question of why substitute Hiroshi instead of Ryan? I don't have a good answer for that, but perhaps there was a thought to bring Ryan back later, but it just never materialised.
IIRC the Alexander was later seen guarding Proxima III following the liberation, so it's not like they were forgotten about.
If I had to guess, I think what happened to Hiroshi and the Churchill was originally meant for Hague. That however raises the question of why substitute Hiroshi instead of Ryan? I don't have a good answer for that, but perhaps there was a thought to bring Ryan back later, but it just never materialised.
IIRC the Alexander was later seen guarding Proxima III following the liberation, so it's not like they were forgotten about.
I of course watched it, and enjoyed it.
But it really felt like, it was just an add on.... not part of the greater story that was seasons 1-4.
Remember what I just said - Foxworth's agent booked him on both shows simultaneously. And while I don't doubt that B5 expected him to be available well in advance - I'm sure DS9 did the same. So who's right?
And remember, this is TV. You don't seriously expect that the concept of "honorable" ever figures into it, do ya?
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