Voyager condensed into one season

[Thomas Eugene]

You could not possibly be more wrong.

First of all, you were the one who brought up not being able to enjoy things that were too intellectually challenging. You used "War and Peace" as an example. Your friends (and the rest of the world) consider it intellectually challenging literature, you can't read past the beginning. It was your point, don't blame me for jumping on it . Also, you said (I paraphrase) that an angle beyond one's comprehension in a plot shouldn't -have- to be explained. You implied that if something was too subtle, nuanced or complex for you to grasp, it was obviously 'weak'.

I INVITE information, explanation or a different perspective... I can't tell you how many times in my life that learning about something (through discussion or research) allowed me to see things in a completely different perspective, which drastically altered my interest and enjoyment.

I don't know what you're going on about. You said you don't like things that are too cerebral, and I said perhaps you would change your mind if you saw them from a different perspective, and that it's possible to enjoy them more once you do. You argue this vehemently, instead of considering it. It seems to me that your nature is to be rigid in your thinking.

I understand that with your twisted way of thinking you keep repeating the same thing ... so we probably can't get past that. Then believe what you will, I've already said like five times that all this is entirely your assumption but you keep repeating the whole thin again and again so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[jmidnight_99]

You're still not listening to the content of the message. And, you're antagonized over your own choice of words. You have joined a discussion group, yet you seem unwilling to participate in a thoughtful discussion without getting defensive. It's no wonder I keep repeating myself.

I'm asserting that it's possible for one to learn something about a subject, any subject, and that doing so can drastically change one's interest in that subject. The subject can be literature, music, movies, series, or a TV episode, a hobby, anything. It's no fun participating or experiencing something that one does not understand, or with which one is entirely unfamiliar.

One would have to be thoughtful, and be both open to listening to different opinions, and willing to learn to experience things from a different perspective. This implies the participation of someone whose mind isn't tightly shut.

"I don't like it because I don't understand it" and "If I don't understand it and it has to be explained to me, it is weak" are not thoughtful informed opinions, In fact, they are entirely just the opposite.

Are you interesting in engaging in a discussion or not?

 

[The Overlord]

Kes was never boring.

I can point out some characters in the different Trek shows who could be called boring but Kes wasn't among them.

She is an unique character, both a contrast and complement to more typical female action characters like Janeway, Torres and Seven.

There were a lot of good and exciting Kes episodes, not only in season 3 but in season 1 and 2 as well.

The Ocampa had some flaws, particularily the stupid lifespan and the one-children thing but they made more sense than many of other Star Trek species.

I think Kes had the potential to be a great, but it was never quite realized, which was a shame.

https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/v863.php

I can see why you defend Kes, but I don't see why you constantly defend Harry Kim, Neelix and Chakotay.

Neelix is one of the most obnoxious characters in the franchise and Harry Kim and Chakotay are just dull, frankly Chakotay is a often written as a racial stereotype. Even the actor playing Chakotay does not like Chakotay.

Frankly I think Voyager has so much pointless filler episodes that serve no purpose, you can get rid of 3 quarters of the series and nothing important would be lost.

 

[jmidnight_99]

I think Kes had the potential to be a great, but it was never quite realized, which was a shame.

https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/v863.php

I can see why you defend Kes, but I don't see why you constantly defend Harry Kim, Neelix and Chakotay.

Neelix is one of the most obnoxious characters in the franchise and Harry Kim and Chakotay are just dull, frankly Chakotay is a often written as a racial stereotype. Even the actor playing Chakotay does not like Chakotay.

Frankly I think Voyager has so much pointless filler episodes that serve no purpose, you can get rid of 3 quarters of the series and nothing important would be lost.

It amuses me that you participate in a blog of a series you clearly do not like.
You can find boring and annoying anywhere you choose to look for it. If you dislike the show and constantly choose to look for negativity, wouldn't it make sense to just stop watching it?

What part on any show in the franchise is actually consistently interesting and consistently well acted?

Will Riker? Counselor Troi? Chekhov? Sulu? Captain Picard? Nothing about them is particularly interesting if one looks too hard. Beverly Crusher? She was so boring she was replaced for a season. Her replacement was even more boring and annoying. That horrible, horrible doctor on DS9? "KAMANDAH, What are you doing, KAMANDAH? You shouldn't be doing that KAMANDAH" He's so annoying he's nauseating, I find him to be the worst character (and actor) in the entire franchise. Major Kira? O'Brien? Sour and dour Odo, who looks down on everyone? Geordi LaForge? Horrible acting.

It doesn't make sense to dwell on these things because they are very minor components in a much larger picture. The ensembles work, even though every component may not. They are greater than the sum of their parts, as every ensemble will be. The Beatles wouldn't have been the Beatles without Ringo, even though Ringo was NO John or Paul. Another John or Paul may have made for a less successful -LESS BALANCED- ensemble. That's the funny thing about 'Chemistry'.

Kes isn't boring because of just 'Kes', The character was superfluous, and did not add to the chemistry of the ensemble. That's why the character was replaced. If you think about it, Seven was just a more interesting Kes character. Another character for the captain to take under her wing and look out for, another character for the doctor to bond with, another romantic interest for some crew member, except Seven was a little more dangerous and interesting rather than a pixie-like child.

 

[The Lonely Man]

I think Kes had the potential to be a great, but it was never quite realized, which was a shame.

https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/v863.php


Frankly I think Voyager has so much pointless filler episodes that serve no purpose, you can get rid of 3 quarters of the series and nothing important would be lost.

The same can be said for numerous shows. It depends really on what you consider important. The Journey back to Earth ?
If that was the case we could have had Caretaker, Message in a bottle and then Endgame. Scrap the rest of the filler episodes. Wrapped up nice and easily.

From my point of view, the journey was the story, from Janeway growing as a Captain. The redemption of Chakotay and Paris, Harry Kim growing and Maturing, The evolution of the Doctor, Torres being given a second chance, Seven regaining her humanity.
All of these were part of the Voyager story and there are few episodes that don't touch on some aspects of the above.

But like I said, depends on what you're looking for from the show.

 

[Sophie74656]

I agree with this. There are many episodes that some could call "filler"..meaning they have nothing to do with Voyager getting home. But for me these are often the best episodes because they are usually episodes exploring the characters. Those are the episodes that develop the characters and relationships.

 

[The Overlord]

The same can be said for numerous shows. It depends really on what you consider important. The Journey back to Earth ?
If that was the case we could have had Caretaker, Message in a bottle and then Endgame. Scrap the rest of the filler episodes. Wrapped up nice and easily.

From my point of view, the journey was the story, from Janeway growing as a Captain. The redemption of Chakotay and Paris, Harry Kim growing and Maturing, The evolution of the Doctor, Torres being given a second chance, Seven regaining her humanity.
All of these were part of the Voyager story and there are few episodes that don't touch on some aspects of the above.

But like I said, depends on what you're looking for from the show.

There were good episodes besides those for plot or character developing moments: Scorpion, Living Witness, Dark Frontier, the Thaw, etc.

But there are several episodes that are rather bland or just plain bad: Tattoo, the Fight, Thershold, Twisted, Learning Curve, Fair Haven, Fury, etc.

Harry Kim didn't grow and mature, he remained static. Chakotay didn't get a redemption story, he went from potentially bad ass terrorist leader to Janeway's servant and a racial sterotpye after the first episode.

There was a lot of fat that could be cut from Voyager.

 

[The Lonely Man]

There were good episodes besides those for plot or character developing moments: Scorpion, Living Witness, Dark Frontier, the Thaw, etc.

But there are several episodes that are rather bland or just plain bad: Tattoo, the Fight, Thershold, Twisted, Learning Curve, Fair Haven, Fury, etc.

Harry Kim didn't grow and mature, he remained static. Chakotay didn't get a redemption story, he went from potentially bad ass terrorist leader to Janeway's servant and a racial sterotpye after the first episode.

There was a lot of fat that could be cut from Voyager.

Harry Kim went from a fresh faced young ensign to an experienced officer not afraid to voice his opinion. I seem to recall him shooting down Tuvok in Demon for his condescending attitude towards him and Paris congratulating him on it.

Chakotay finding himself as first officer of a starship and embracing the role years after giving up his previous command commission is a little more than a servant. He also pretty strongly opposed her wishes in Scorpion.

Interesting you mention The Thaw, whilst I did enjoy that episode it had a very TOS feel to it and it was basically an episode where we went along for the ride, nothing much going on there in terms of development. Likewise Living Witness which was set in an alternate future (although I didn't enjoy that one too much).

In Twisted I thought there was a lovely scene where the crew had exhausted all other avenues open to them and accepted they had no control over what was about to happen, Paris puts his hand on Harry's shoulder in an embrace of friendship. A very small gesture but definite signs of character development given the Paris we were originally introduced to.

Could Voyager have been done better ? Sure it could. Personally I enjoyed and still do and given the fact this forum is still going strong it's safe to say I'm not alone in that.

 

[jmidnight_99]

I shudder when I reflect on the broken, backwards thinking that concludes that a character who embraces his or her own heritage is a "racial stereotype",

But this thought process helps me understand exactly why Trump won in a landslide.

I guess along those lines, Tuvok is a racial stereotype. And Worf, too. Bet you never thought of that, did you? And anyone else who doesn't reject their own customs and beliefs, and comes over to the "enlightened" world of sterile political correctness is a racial stereotype. How positively vulgar.

I guess B'lanna isn't a racial stereotype. She's filled with a crippling self-loathing as everyone should be. Here's a thought... maybe that's the new stereotype?

 

[Leviathan]

Condensed? how about: It's Star Trek's version of 'Gilligans Island'.

 

[The Lonely Man]

I shudder when I reflect on the broken, backwards thinking that concludes that a character who embraces his or her own heritage is a "racial stereotype",

But this thought process helps me understand exactly why Trump won in a landslide.

I guess along those lines, Tuvok is a racial stereotype. And Worf, too. Bet you never thought of that, did you? And anyone else who doesn't reject their own customs and beliefs, and comes over to the "enlightened" world of sterile political correctness is a racial stereotype. How positively vulgar.

I guess B'lanna isn't a racial stereotype. She's filled with a crippling self-loathing as everyone should be. Here's a thought... maybe that's the new stereotype?

Hope he's never watched Luke Cage.

 

[Sophie74656]

Condensed? how about: It's Star Trek's version of 'Gilligans Island'.

Not really