Voyager condensed into one season

[Lynx]

Kes was never boring? Then they wrote the character out because...?

Let's see. The Ocampa somehow "forgot" they had -massive- telepathic and psychokinetic powers, and instead of using those powers to further their race or at least repair the damage the caretaker accidentally did to their world, they became docile, flaccid and chose to live a subservient child-like existence underground. Makes tons of sense.

Kes is boring, childlike, and uninteresting. Partly because of the character, partly because of the way the actress played her. She's given a last-chance makeover (longer hair, etc) but she still isn't attractive enough or interesting enough to generate any viewer interest or good storylines at all, so the character is written out and replaced, thankfully with a far more interesting character that can actually add something interesting to the show.

The lifespan and the one child aspects of the Ocampa were the only interesting parts. Every life form can't be exactly the same as humans you know.

Kes was written out because those in charge wanted a "sexy babe" to attract male teenage viewers.

The original idea was to dump Kim but when a silly inside poll among the staff of a glossy magazine showed actor Garret Wang as one of the "50 most handsome", Berman's gang changed their plans and dumped Kes instead.

I don't find it impossible that the Ocampa forgot their powers. They were slowly brainwashed by their lazy leaders to become docile, flaccid chose to live a subservient child-like existence. This is actually happening in our world today too.

Kes is nice, friendly and beautiful but also strong-willed, determined, brave and curious whichmakes her interesting. She's a contrast but also a complement to more typical female action characters like Janeway, Torres and Seven. With her will to learn and explore, she personifies the spirit of Star Trek, a spirit which was gone when she was dumped.

Jennifer Lien did an excellent job in playing Kes. She really gave life to the character.

The "last-chance makover" you mentioned had nothing todo with any "last chance". The longer hair was a result of Jennifer Lien becoming allergic to the glue which was used to attach the Ocampa ears on her head and the new clothes was probably a result of Brannon Braga's obsession with women in catsuits.

As for the writing, the writers actually managed to come up with great Kes stories for three seasons and there were a lot of viewers who liked her.

The only interesting with the character which replaced Kes was her attributes.
And as I mentioned before, Kim was the one who they were going to dump.

The one-child thing was a stupid mistake. In a real scenario, that would lead to the species becoing fewer and fewer. Just count and see!

The lifespan was silly because a species with such a short lifespan could only develope into primates.

 

[Sophie74656]

It was said in the show that they could have more than one child.

the length of their individual lifespan would not prevent them from evolving. But as we saw it was the caretaker that was giving them the shorter lifespan, that wasn't their natural state

 

[Lynx]

It was said in the show that they could have more than one child.

the length of their individual lifespan would not prevent them from evolving. But as we saw it was the caretaker that was giving them the shorter lifespan, that wasn't their natural state

Well, the only hint of that is when Benaren calls Kes his "favorite daughter" so maybe they had triplets or even more children the only time they could conceive children.

And since The Caretaker was giving them the shorter lifespan, then it was possible to prolong their lifespans. Which had been done on Suspiria's array.

 

[Sophie74656]

Well, the only hint of that is when Benaren calls Kes his "favorite daughter" so maybe they had triplets or even more children the only time they could conceive children.

And since The Caretaker was giving them the shorter lifespan, then it was possible to prolong their lifespans. Which had been done on Suspiria's array.

Actually, the more-than-a-hint is when Kes says she has an uncle. That means that one of her parents had at least one sibling

 

[Voth commando1]

Well, I don't consider that episode a Kes episode but it was the episode where they tried to destroy and humiliate the character.

As for worst Voyager episodes:

1. That insulting s**episode in season 6 where they tried to ruin, humiliate and finally kill of Kes.
2 The Gift
3. Endgame
4. Mortal Coil
5. That episode where they tried to re-write the earlier history of Voyager by pretending that Seven was on the ship from the beginning. (I don't remember the name of that episode).

"The Fight" was a bad episode too but not as bad as those I mentioned above.

Wait what episode did they do when they pretended seven was on the ship from the beginning? What are you talking about?

 

[Sophie74656]

Wait what episode did they do when they pretended seven was on the ship from the beginning? What are you talking about?

He is incorrectly referring to Relativity

 

[Voth commando1]

I had to search for it but it was "Relativity".

Relativity that was a bunch of time travel escapades with a 29th century ship and a captain Braxton. It didn't say she was like there from caretaker-she was selected to find a time traveling saboteur you didn't actually watch the episode did you?

 

[Voth commando1]

Exactly, given how well the program worked in the episode then in theory Voyager could have had two Doctors on duty whenever they felt like it.

I tend to look on that episode akin to the old Elseworlds Dc comics series.

I'm willing to overlook that/because the episode itself was great.

 

[Sophie74656]

Relativity that was a bunch of time travel escapades with a 29th century ship and a captain Braxton. It didn't say she was like there from caretaker-she was selected to find a time traveling saboteur you didn't actually watch the episode did you?

Exactly. Seven basicaly just paid a visit to some different points in time and was careful not to interact with the crew

 

[Tracy Trek]

The one-child thing was a stupid mistake. In a real scenario, that would lead to the species becoing fewer and fewer. Just count and see!

It would decrease the population by half each generation. Either the writers themselves are math dyslexic or are hoping the viewers are. Honestly I never thought about it when I watched it all those years ago, I just enjoyed the story. But I'm not all that great at math myself.

And since The Caretaker was giving them the shorter lifespan, then it was possible to prolong their lifespans. Which had been done on Suspiria's array.

It was always my personal interpretation that the Ocampa before the Caretaker has normal life spans compare to other species. But since he was having them live in an underground setting with limited space. I believe he tampered with the life spans in an effort to control population. In a way it sort of reminds me of that old sci-fi movie Logan's Run. You know where everyone was required to die at 30.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

It might signify that... but it also might be a sign that the viewer is intellectually challenged and might be better suited to episodes of "Baby Daddy". Like I said, my sister considers anything thought provoking to be boring, and is far better suited to episodes of "Gossip Girl". You're arguing my point, which is what I don't get.

My point is that boring is the same for me as weak. Leo Tolstoy's War and Peace is considered to be one of the most outstanding novels ever written. People into classical literature will say that it's one of the most intellectually challenging books of world literature. To me, it's completely unreadable. So it is a weak story from where I'm standing.
The same goes for those VOY episodes at the end of season 6. With the slight difference that they are boring without ever coming to the intellectual level of War and Peace, which means that they are even weaker in my book.

 

[Voth commando1]

Didn't the caretaker ruin the ocampan atmosphere with the radiation and hence may have dramatically shortened their lifespan.

That was was always my head canon.

 

[Lynx]

Relativity that was a bunch of time travel escapades with a 29th century ship and a captain Braxton. It didn't say she was like there from caretaker-she was selected to find a time traveling saboteur you didn't actually watch the episode did you?

I did watch it a long time ago.

OK, I was in a bad mood when it came to Voyager at that time. I had quit watching Voyager after "The Gift" but two years later, I decided to give in a second chance so I borrowed VHS-tapes to catch up with the episodes I'd missed. I often watched 2 or 4 episodes in a row so maybe I wasn't so concentrated on each and every detail but I remember being annoyed whenI saw the flashback from "Caretaker", sort of "now they are showing us how they think the show should have been from the beginning".

I must admit that the Seven hype on the official website and in different Star Trk magazines did get on my nerves at that time.

Plus the fact that Kes did seem to be totally wiped out from Voyager history in the same media too.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

I did watch it a long time ago.

OK, I was in a bad mood when it came to Voyager at that time. I had quit watching Voyager after "The Gift" but two years later, I decided to give in a second chance so I borrowed VHS-tapes to catch up with the episodes I'd missed. I often watched 2 or 4 episodes in a row so maybe I wasn't so concentrated on each and every detail but I remember being annoyed whenI saw the flashback from "Caretaker", sort of "now they are showing us how they think the show should have been from the beginning".

I must admit that the Seven hype on the official website and in different Star Trk magazines did get on my nerves at that time.

Plus the fact that Kes did seem to be totally wiped out from Voyager history in the same media too.

Interestingly enough I have similar impressions with THE VOYAGER CONSPIRACY. Whenever I watch it, I always think that it's a bit of an exaggeration that Seven is concerned with the whole story of CARETAKER so much.
And if she does think that there's a conspiracy going on, why is only CARETAKER mentioned from the first three seasons? It seems like in CARETAKER Voyager came to the Delta Quadrant on an undercover mission (from Seven's point of view) and then practically nothing happens on that mission that has any relevance until Seven joins them. Weird.
But @Lynx the "good news" for you is that on TVC Kes's name gets mentioned at least. She is also mentioned on RANDOM THOUGHTS and PREY if memory serves ...

 

[Lynx]

Interestingly enough I have similar impressions with THE VOYAGER CONSPIRACY. Whenever I watch it, I always think that it's a bit of an exaggeration that Seven is concerned with the whole story of CARETAKER so much.
And if she does think that there's a conspiracy going on, why is only CARETAKER mentioned from the first three seasons? It seems like in CARETAKER Voyager came to the Delta Quadrant on an undercover mission (from Seven's point of view) and then practically nothing happens on that mission that has any relevance until Seven joins them. Weird.
But @Lynx the "good news" for you is that on TVC Kes's name gets mentioned at least. She is also mentioned on RANDOM THOUGHTS and PREY if memory serves ...

I remember her being mentioned at least once but I can't remember what episode it was.

 

[Sophie74656]

Interestingly enough I have similar impressions with THE VOYAGER CONSPIRACY. Whenever I watch it, I always think that it's a bit of an exaggeration that Seven is concerned with the whole story of CARETAKER so much.
And if she does think that there's a conspiracy going on, why is only CARETAKER mentioned from the first three seasons? It seems like in CARETAKER Voyager came to the Delta Quadrant on an undercover mission (from Seven's point of view) and then practically nothing happens on that mission that has any relevance until Seven joins them. Weird.
But @Lynx the "good news" for you is that on TVC Kes's name gets mentioned at least. She is also mentioned on RANDOM THOUGHTS and PREY if memory serves ...

The whole point is that everything she says in that episode is an exageration

 

[jmidnight_99]

Didn't the caretaker ruin the ocampan atmosphere with the radiation and hence may have dramatically shortened their lifespan.

That was was always my head canon.

The caretaker didn't wipe out the atmosphere, but what they did turned the planet into a desert. The caretaker also had nothing to do with the Ocampa lifespan.

 

[jmidnight_99]

My point is that boring is the same for me as weak. Leo Tolstoy's War and Peace is considered to be one of the most outstanding novels ever written. People into classical literature will say that it's one of the most intellectually challenging books of world literature. To me, it's completely unreadable. So it is a weak story from where I'm standing.
The same goes for those VOY episodes at the end of season 6. With the slight difference that they are boring without ever coming to the intellectual level of War and Peace, which means that they are even weaker in my book.

So you're saying the episodes are weak because they are too intellectually challenging for you?

 

[jmidnight_99]

Kes was written out because those in charge wanted a "sexy babe" to attract male teenage viewers.

The original idea was to dump Kim but when a silly inside poll among the staff of a glossy magazine showed actor Garret Wang as one of the "50 most handsome", Berman's gang changed their plans and dumped Kes instead.

I don't find it impossible that the Ocampa forgot their powers. They were slowly brainwashed by their lazy leaders to become docile, flaccid chose to live a subservient child-like existence. This is actually happening in our world today too.

Kes is nice, friendly and beautiful but also strong-willed, determined, brave and curious whichmakes her interesting. She's a contrast but also a complement to more typical female action characters like Janeway, Torres and Seven. With her will to learn and explore, she personifies the spirit of Star Trek, a spirit which was gone when she was dumped.

Jennifer Lien did an excellent job in playing Kes. She really gave life to the character.

The "last-chance makover" you mentioned had nothing todo with any "last chance". The longer hair was a result of Jennifer Lien becoming allergic to the glue which was used to attach the Ocampa ears on her head and the new clothes was probably a result of Brannon Braga's obsession with women in catsuits.

As for the writing, the writers actually managed to come up with great Kes stories for three seasons and there were a lot of viewers who liked her.

The only interesting with the character which replaced Kes was her attributes.
And as I mentioned before, Kim was the one who they were going to dump.

The one-child thing was a stupid mistake. In a real scenario, that would lead to the species becoing fewer and fewer. Just count and see!

The lifespan was silly because a species with such a short lifespan could only develope into primates.

I'm sorry but if any of this were true, they would have kept her. I can tell you liked the character, but she and the Ocampa in general were as interesting as unbuttered toast. Voyager would have never succeeded had they kept her, because there was no where for the character to go or GROW. I can write paragraphs about why I hate the new ST movies, how they should have kept things the same etc, but in the end it's my opinion, nothing more, and since the new movies raked in the bucks, created millions of new fans, and revitalized the franchise all over the world, I'd be wrong. The seven character was more than sex appeal, if that's all it took then Jolene Blalock would have kept Enterprise going for 8 years. The ensemble cast of voyager needed a bit more conflict and diversity to work, and the Seven character brought that. Just like the addition of Worf to DS9 probably saved that show. Not because of they character itself, but because it made for better chemistry in the ensemble.

 

[jmidnight_99]

Thanks for that very patronising reply.

I'm good in my original assumption though.

stuck would be better choice of words