Spoilers Supergirl - Season 2

[Grendelsbayne]

They'd been on Earth for 12 years by the time we met them.

Oh I know that, but I'm still curious how they did it. Did they manage to salvage some kryptonian translation technology? Kidnap a teacher and force them to help? Or did they just spend their first several years watching tv all the time trying to teach themselves what the humans were saying?

Or do kryptonians already have some basic knowledge of earth languages for some reason?

 

[Christopher]

Or do kryptonians already have some basic knowledge of earth languages for some reason?

Well, it's always been part of the lore that Jor-El and/or the Kryptonians had been observing Earth long enough to know that it would be a safe haven for Kal-El. In this show, we've seen that the Kryptonians were accomplished astronomers and explorers, that they knew about Earth and sent Kal-El and Kara there with foreknowledge of its conditions. So they could've had a record of Earth languages in their databases.

 

[Marc]

I dunno, I think the Golden Age comics portrayed Clark as something of a klutz. That was the standard Scarlet Pimpernel/Zorro secret-identity model they were drawing on -- the strong, brave, virile action hero adopts a weak, fumbling, timid, even effeminate persona so nobody suspects a connection.

something that's also been a big part of the Batman lore over the years.

 

[Christopher]

something that's also been a big part of the Batman lore over the years.

Yup, because Batman was originally a pretty blatant knockoff of The Shadow, and Bruce Wayne was essentially Lamont Cranston, and The Shadow was influenced in turn by dime-novel and pulp characters such as Zorro/Don Diego, and Zorro was probably inspired by The Scarlet Pimpernel. It all sprang from the Baroness Orczy.

 

[Noname Given]

The show forced Snapper Carr into a ridiculous confrontation with James just to "double down" on the idea that he's an a-hole, and the only thing it accomplished was to undermine and drown out the message he was trying to impart to Kara that you have to be unbiased in journalism.

I didn't see it that way - Carr was trying to get Jimmy to BE a boss. I feel it was even there when Carr said, "I'll walk..." <--- He was wanting to see if Jimmy would call his bluff - which the character did.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

And in every iteration of Superman's lore, Clark Kent was always portrayed as capable in his job as a reporter.

Yes, he is supposed to a naturally incisive man who did not have to stumble his way into stories.

while Chyler Leigh and Floriana Lima are simply trying too hard.

Not just in their tossed together dialogue forcing feelings Alex never expressed, but in other ways, particularly the marching around with a bad attitude, which us supposed to translate as assertive.

And it's fun how a progressive tv show like Supergirl can still fail the Bechdel Test . Lena and Kara talked about Lex Luthor and Maggie and Alex discussed about the suspect in the assassination attempt (that at the time they believed he was Mon-El, a man).

To be fair, when talking to Lena, not mentioning Lex would seem like a deliberate dodge. He's the reason for the business, its reputation, etc. It would be like talking to Melania Trump about the business gong forward, but never mentioning his name at all, when his work or legacy is the only reason the business exists.

something that's also been a big part of the Batman lore over the years.

Bruce Wayne was not bumbling or goofy, particularly in the Silver Age - forward. Occasionally playing the part of the aloof rich boy? Yes, but he was not some all-thumbs dork in his civilian life.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Much the same was true in the '40s radio series. Indeed, it often seemed incongruous how much scorn the radio version of Lois had for Clark's lack of courage and manhood, given that he often demonstrated great courage and valor as Clark, e.g. unhesitatingly racing into danger so that he could change into Superman once he was out of the others' view, or standing up to a thug's intimidation rather than backing down from a story. And yet despite all that, Lois still routinely sneered at his supposed weakness and cowardice, which was quite odd.

And this is when I realized that @Christopher had changed his avatar....

 

[Dick Whitman]

My local CW channel was a test pattern for the first 10 minutes!

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

"Survivors"--

Kara: "I just had my ass handed to me by a seven foot gladiator--" Good that the writers have her admit to not being all powerful.

The DEO releasing Mon-El into her custody...gee, no set up for romantic tension between these two....

Luthor: Allowing Kara access to the building? I think its a little more than obvious she knows Kara is SG, and that will not be used against her--but someone else...

Hank: Interesting that he continues to believe that he cannot fully connect / assimilate with humans--embracing the idea that differences matter, so seeking the bond of his own is a dream.

Miss Martian: Did it really take Hank acting as the sacrificial lamb (Cap) for her to drop her petulant teenager act?

Alex: Once again, the quickie connection between Alex and Sawyer. I hope they do not have Alex become a hypocrite in running around with Sawyer (making SG a third wheel), when Alex was bent out of shape about Kara wanting to spend time with Clark.

If Draga can toss Supergirl around like a rag doll, why would he blink at Alex with a pistol?

Mon-El: For a guy who learned his civilization was destroyed, he's not too bothered by it all.
Telegraphing Winn giving him the means to break out as a costumed character..and of course, that will lead to some sort of exploitation.

James: M.I.A. this week. The Guardian next week!

Sinclair: "What have you ever given them? Black eyes?" "You can't stop gambling." She was correct in both cases.

Carr: "You didn't give me a story, you gave me a half baked idea." -- didn't Kara learn anything from Clark about writing stories?

NOTES: Sigh....yet another plot shamelessly ripped from other DC adaptations--in this case, "Grudge Match"--a 2006 episode of Justice League Unlimited, but with none of the panache of that great animated episode.

Another swiped scene: Miss Martian straddle punching Hank moments before nearly killing him, but Hank's good-hearted resistance makes her stop to look within...someone send that back to Captain America: The Winter Soldier!

Line of the episode: Carr's "We're the fourth estate, not Reddit!"

Mon-El mentions Warworld. I wonder if it will ever earn more than a casual reference....

Okay, how many times is an assumed protagonist revealed to be another alien in disguise by the end of the episode? That's two in as many weeks.

 

[cylkoth]

Mon El speaks as if he's been on Earth his entire life. No attempt whatsoever at giving him any sort of 'alienness' in his dialog.

Nice to see they haven't abandoned Hologram Mom.Though why make a point of Winn learning Kryptonian when they have the Fort Roz database and AI that can translate any alien languages it may have stored?

The whole Alex/Maggie story...feels too forced. As well as rushed. And no, I'm not saying that because Sawyer's gay. Can't they just slow down, and let things develop naturally-if at all?

While I spent most of the episode ogling the new DEO sets, it struck me as strange that they bear no design continuity with the old underground base out in the desert. Not complaining, there's no reason why it should share the same asthetic. Just an interesting choice to make it completely different.

 

[Christopher]

I'm not a fan of the Obligatory Underground Fight Club Episode trope, but this was okay, continuing the theme of aliens and their treatment as an allegory for immigrants -- which is what Superman originally was, in a sense. Plus it had Dichen Lachman, always a plus.

They're moving plot points forward faster than I would've expected. They're definitely pursuing a romantic arc with Alex and Maggie -- and Alex seemed like she was the instigator, unexpectedly, inviting Maggie for a drink and looking less than happy when Maggie turned out to be with another woman. Plus there was the reveal about M'gann at the end. Not that that came as any surprise to me. As soon as she told that story about the White Martian death-camp guard having pangs of conscience and helping her escape, I knew that she was actually the guard.

I remember Draaga from the Justice League: "War World" episodes, though they pronounced it differently there. He proved a formidable foe for Superman there, so it makes sense that he could overpower Supergirl here. Still, why are so many aliens as superstrong by default as Kryptonians are when supercharged by a yellow sun?

Mon El speaks as if he's been on Earth his entire life. No attempt whatsoever at giving him any sort of 'alienness' in his dialog.

It was inconsistent. Sometimes he spoke perfect colloquial English, and sometimes he had trouble with colloquialisms like "awesome" and "babe."

Nice to see they haven't abandoned Hologram Mom.Though why make a point of Winn learning Kryptonian when they have the Fort Roz database and AI that can translate any alien languages it may have stored?

Because they wanted to establish that Winn had the qualifications to be a DEO agent and to help out with Kryptonian stuff like Mon-El's pod.

While I spent most of the episode ogling the new DEO sets, it struck me as strange that they bear no design continuity with the old underground base out in the desert. Not complaining, there's no reason why it should share the same asthetic. Just an interesting choice to make it completely different.

Maybe they were built at different times using different architects. In real life, the producers "fell out of love" with the cave set, so I can understand them wanting to get away from it completely. And I'm sure the more functional design of the cell (with a bed and a toilet visible) was in response to criticisms of the unrealistically empty cell set in season 1.

 

[Mudd]

They used essentially the same cell on The Flash last week.

The Alex/Maggie thing doesn't seem rushed to me. That attraction happens quickly between aggressive young people who regularly deal with high-stress, life-threatening situations is pretty plausible.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Young?

Floriana Lima is 33, and Chyler Lee is 34.

Although, they're probably playing 5 years younger, if Alex and Kara are almost the same age.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Young?

Floriana Lima is 33, and Chyler Lee is 34.

Although, they're probably playing 5 years younger, if Alex and Kara are almost the same age.

Lately that has started to seem young to me.

 

[Mudd]

Young?

Floriana Lima is 33, and Chyler Lee is 34.

Young.

 

[Christopher]

By the way, I wonder if there was something cut out of the scene where Kara and Mon-El were sitting on the bed in the infirmary and talking. She started to address why she'd been uneasy around him, then talked about her parents and how she wanted to see them as perfect. It sounded like she was leading up to saying that she was embarrassed to realize her parents had unfair prejudices against Daxamites, and being with Mon-El reminded her of that imperfection. But she didn't actually say that, and without it, the conversation just seemed like a non sequitur.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Mon El speaks as if he's been on Earth his entire life. No attempt whatsoever at giving him any sort of 'alienness' in his dialog.

Blame the writers: Mon-El--at the moment--is trotted out like anyone at home on the endless CW teen dramas of the past decade. You would never know he is from another planet at all. No remote, awkward adjustments at all.

Though why make a point of Winn learning Kryptonian when they have the Fort Roz database and AI that can translate any alien languages it may have stored?

It is writing for convenience, all to give one of the regulars something to do / being at the DEO at all.

The whole Alex/Maggie story...feels too forced. As well as rushed. And no, I'm not saying that because Sawyer's gay. Can't they just slow down, and let things develop naturally-if at all?

You're not the only one noticing how forced and rushed that is, but that seemed to be the focus of the episode--not Mon-El, Hank, Megan, or the shoehorned rip from Justice League Unlimited "Grudge Match".

Young?

Floriana Lima is 33, and Chyler Lee is 34.

Yeah...not exactly a couple of crazy college kids.

 

[DigificWriter]

Yet another excellent episode from this show on the whole, although I did have a few quibbles:
1) Why didn't Maggie turn Roulette over to the DEO? They could've likely made something stick instead of us getting the clichéd "somebody higher up pulls rank and gets the perp off" plot device.

2) Even though I know these writers have a penchant for following the comics, making M'gann a White Marian feels like a misstep because I think there's a more interesting story that could've been told by making her the actual "Last Daughter of Mars". Going the route that they did also introduces an inconsistency in the way that they've handled Martian shape-shifting, as every time they've done it up until the very last scene of the episode, the person doing the shifting has reverted to their 'natural form' briefly in between shape changes. If you're going to go the route of making her Green Martian form a disguise, at least be consistent with your shifting effect and don't hold off the reveal that she's actually a White Martian until the last scene of the show.

3) Roulette was a bit bland and one-note for me, which was a waste of Dichen Lachman's talents since I know she's capable of much more than they gave her here (see Dollhouse).

Anyway, enough complaining. On to the positive things about Survivors":
The writers actually changed my opinion about Snapper Carr, at least for one episode, by not making him behave like a superficial a-hole. His interactions with Kara, while gruff, were actually on-point and productive, and we even got to see a tiny hint of affection briefly shine through, which is good.

I can no longer deny that there may be more than just friendship brewing between Alex and Maggie, but, at the same time, they're continuing to send up sparks with Kara and Lena Luthor, so we'll see where things ultimately go.

I really liked the bonding we got between Kara and M'onel (this is how I'm spelling his name until the show provides an actual spelling for it in writing). It's nice seeing Kara connect with somebody other than Alex and Clark on a purely platonic and personal level, and officially setting her up as a mentor for him should provide some nice character development for both of them.

Even though it was soured a little by the reveal at the end, I really liked the way that J'onn and M'gann played off one another, and David Harewood and Sharon Leal have really good chemistry.

Even with the issues I talked about at the top, Survivors was still a great episode, and continues Supergirl's streak as the best of the Arrowverse shows stretching back to last season.

 

[Mudd]

It was spelled "Mon-El" on the bio-monitor when he was being checked over at DEO in this episode.

 

[Christopher]

1) Why didn't Maggie turn Roulette over to the DEO? They could've likely made something stick instead of us getting the clichéd "somebody higher up pulls rank and gets the perp off" plot device.

The DEO doesn't have the authority to arrest or detain humans. When Alex arrested Max Lord in season 1, it was clearly established as something irregular, illegal, and unethical, and it didn't last long. So they wouldn't be likely to do it again.

2) Even though I know these writers have a penchant for following the comics, making M'gann a White Marian feels like a misstep because I think there's a more interesting story that could've been told by making her the actual "Last Daughter of Mars".

Why? Then it would just be the same as J'onn's story. This way, we get to look at the Martian race war from the other side, adding complexity to it, and it complicates the J'onn-M'gann relationship going forward in ways that just having her be another Green Martian would not.

Going the route that they did also introduces an inconsistency in the way that they've handled Martian shape-shifting, as every time they've done it up until the very last scene of the episode, the person doing the shifting has reverted to their 'natural form' briefly in between shape changes.

That's not actually true. In "Childish Things," when J'onn impersonated Max to break into his secret room and overpowered the guard, it was implied that he changed directly from Max to Hank. His eyes glowed red as Max, then we cut to the guard asking "Who are you?" and the camera tilting up to show Hank with his eyes glowing. As edited, there didn't appear to be enough time for him to change to J'onn in between. And in "Myriad," J'onn changes from a little boy to Hank in front of Eliza Danvers. Again, it cuts away to her reaction to save on CGI rather than showing the morph directly, but given that it's later established that she still doesn't know what his true form looks like, that confirms that he changed from one false form to another without reverting to his true self in between (beyond the glowing eyes and some green veins on the face). If you have Netflix, you can check and see the scenes for yourself, as I just did.

So clearly Martians can shift directly from one false form to another. Reverting to their native form in between may simply be easier, so they prefer to do it when they can. J'onn might be reluctant to show his true face to someone new, and M'gann had obvious reasons for hiding her true form from J'onn.

3) Roulette was a bit bland and one-note for me, which was a waste of Dichen Lachman's talents since I know she's capable of much more than they gave her here (see Dollhouse).

I thought it was an interesting change of pace to see her playing an outright villain, and I think she made Roulette reasonably charismatic and effectively smug.

I can no longer deny that there may be more than just friendship brewing between Alex and Maggie, but, at the same time, they're continuing to send up sparks with Kara and Lena Luthor, so we'll see where things ultimately go.

Yeah, I do wonder about why Lena is so overly welcoming/supportive to Kara. It's hard to believe they'd give same-sex romance arcs to both Kara and Alex at the same time. I have to wonder if Lena knows more about Kara than she's letting on.

What bugged me was the line where Kara said to Lena "I owe you big" and Lena said "Not at all. I'm sure you'll be there for me when I need you" (or words to that effect). How can that be "not at all" when it's exactly what "I owe you" means?

Even with the issues I talked about at the top, Survivors was still a great episode, and continues Supergirl's streak as the best of the Arrowverse shows stretching back to last season.

Okay, that raises an interesting semantic question -- does "Arrowverse" just mean Earth-1, or does it mean the entire interconnected multiverse of these shows? For what it's worth, the Arrowverse Wiki still doesn't count Supergirl among the shows it covers, instead just providing a link to the Supergirl Wiki on its front page. Although that may change once Supergirl guest-stars in the three other shows.