that... makes no sense.
Voyager condensed into one season
- Thread starter jmidnight_99
- Start date
Kes wasn't a particularly interesting character. They tried to make her more interesting in season 3, but none of those episodes really worked. She remained downright boring no matter what they tried to do with her. The character had no place to grow, so she needed to go. The Ocampa made no sense anyway.
There was no episode that pretended that Seven was on the ship from the beginning. There is an episode where Seven traveled back in time to remove a weapon placed on the ship by captain Braxon. That timeline was erased.
That's a lot. The Fair Haven episodes wouldn't be in my list of top 20, because I prefer a little more science in my science fiction, but they are entertaining, well acted episodes that break things up a little, like the Beowulf holodeck story.
My list of strongly disliked episodes is short:
"Jetrel", because I can't stand James Sloyan's voice or acting, and because of the horrible over-acting by Ethan Phillips.
"Projections" because I generally dislike any TV episode or movie that intentionally confuses the viewer for more than a few minutes.
"Elogium" because it was nauseating, and Kes is about as interesting as a case of 'Rhoids. a
And a couple of other Kes-centric episodes like "Warlord".
I don't hate "Ashes to Ashes", but I have a hard time enjoying it because it boils down to everyone having an intimate relationship with a reanimated decaying cadaver that some other alien race used to reproduce.
The Kazon are an inferior race, unworthy of being major players in the series, and I was glad when they were gone. They were inferior, incapable of advancement of any kind, and somehow felt entitled to Voyager's technology and status (where have I heard this scenario before). So the Kazon episodes aren't my favorites, but I wouldn't put them on a strong dislike list.
I couldn't find a list of 50 I'd say I strongly disliked. That's nearly 1 out of 3 episodes. At that point you might as well not watch the series.
You might be interested to know that except for "Fury", the pattern in the episodes you consider "weak" is that they reinterpret various facets of "Star Trek" through third persons. The three con men satirize the entire Star Trek universe in "Live Fast", the actors retell the entire Voyager story as an epic poem in "Muse", and Neelix retells a whole episode as a bedtime story in "Haunting". I'd hardly consider the episodes weak, the formula is just different. Do you remember the scene in "Muse" when the older writer admonishes the younger for using typical "formulaic" writer's plot devices? These episodes are an example of writers telling a story within story, all bending the "typical" episode formula.
I'm not disputing that you are right. However, whether a story is weak or not has nothing to do with what you wrote. The only thing that matters is how much the viewer enjoys it and in my case I just find these episodes boring.
Years ago I taped in order whatever Voyager episodes I saw some value in. So I had a few from s1, mainly the intro stories, then almost nothing from s2 (Tuvix was in there), then it picks up partly through s3. Many from s4, all of s5, then it drops off gradually.
I'm kinda easy to please, there are very few I don't really like. Threshold is at the top of the list, I also wasn't keen on Elogium, Heroes and Demons and Living Witness.
I know Living Witness in particular usually garners a lot of love but I found the whole concept silly.
I know Living Witness in particular usually garners a lot of love but I found the whole concept silly.
My sister finds anything beyond the scope of "Gossip Girls" boring. My father rarely watched anything that didn't involve some IQ challenged oaf hitting or chasing a ball across some kind of court or field. Everything else to him was boring.
You didn't say that you found these episodes boring, you said they were weak stories. I countered that assertion by explaining that those stories have subtleties and nuances that you might have missed, and that they were in fact particularly good stories, the difference from most is that they are told almost from a third person perspective. Whether you find them boring is irrelevant. They are not weak stories.
I hate "Elogium" and "Jetrel" but I'm not going to make the assertion that they are "weak" because I don't enjoy them. "Elogium" is quite complex and nuanced, I just don't enjoy the Kes character (or actress) in large doses. Neelix is a great supporting character but to me, he was never developed enough to be interesting enough to carry the lead in this kind of story. And Ethan Phillips doesn't help because he isn't the greatest actor. I (really REALLY) hate the sound of James Sloyan's voice. So I don't enjoy the episode.
My point is, often times understanding the subtleties or looking at things from a slightly different perspective makes all the difference in the world.
what part is silly?
The doctors back up program ?
Which they stated in Message in a Bottle, didn't exist. I thought that myself, when I watched Living Witness, like "What back-up program."
Call it what you will, to me a weak story is synonymous with a boring one. I actually think that when a viewer needs to be explained why a story is not a weak story, then it is a sure sign that it is.
Exactly, given how well the program worked in the episode then in theory Voyager could have had two Doctors on duty whenever they felt like it.
I tend to look on that episode akin to the old Elseworlds Dc comics series.
Kes was never boring.
I can point out some characters in the different Trek shows who could be called boring but Kes wasn't among them.
She is an unique character, both a contrast and complement to more typical female action characters like Janeway, Torres and Seven.
There were a lot of good and exciting Kes episodes, not only in season 3 but in season 1 and 2 as well.
The Ocampa had some flaws, particularily the stupid lifespan and the one-children thing but they made more sense than many of other Star Trek species.
It might signify that... but it also might be a sign that the viewer is intellectually challenged and might be better suited to episodes of "Baby Daddy". Like I said, my sister considers anything thought provoking to be boring, and is far better suited to episodes of "Gossip Girl". You're arguing my point, which is what I don't get.
Kes was never boring? Then they wrote the character out because...?
Let's see. The Ocampa somehow "forgot" they had -massive- telepathic and psychokinetic powers, and instead of using those powers to further their race or at least repair the damage the caretaker accidentally did to their world, they became docile, flaccid and chose to live a subservient child-like existence underground. Makes tons of sense.
Kes is boring, childlike, and uninteresting. Partly because of the character, partly because of the way the actress played her. She's given a last-chance makeover (longer hair, etc) but she still isn't attractive enough or interesting enough to generate any viewer interest or good storylines at all, so the character is written out and replaced, thankfully with a far more interesting character that can actually add something interesting to the show.
The lifespan and the one child aspects of the Ocampa were the only interesting parts. Every life form can't be exactly the same as humans you know.
I don't think a backup program is silly. I have lots of programs, and all of them are backed up. None of them are silly.
I think the doctor can be backed up or can't be backed up whenever a particular scenario suits the writers. This isn't silly, it's called TV. Every show known to man has inconsistencies. There are inconsistencies everywhere in Star Trek, in every series, every movie, practically every episode.
But you can explain away some of those inconsistencies to help you get past them.
The stories take place hundreds of years in the future, and we have -no idea- how the technologies of that time will work. No one from the 1500s or 1600s could predict how a TV or cell phone or PC (or flash memory or LCD monitor or microwave oven) would work in our present time. They would think you more than silly if you went back 300 years and tried to explain how these technologies work to them. Maybe they would let you live.
So when something seems inconsistent to you, just tell yourself you don't understand the technology, and enjoy the story. To give you an idea how how much you don't understand about emerging technologies, read this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_computing
Thanks for that very patronising reply.
I'm good in my original assumption though.
I agree with this. I thought the concept had some interesting things but overall her character was boring and mostly useless in my opinion.
I agree with this also. The short lifespan was really the only thing that was unique about her. Mental powers, pointy ears...that was all done before.
I do understand that they "forgot" about their powers though. Like a muscle that weakes through lack of use. The caretaker was providing everything for them, they grew comfortable with that and didn't need to use their powers, so over time they "forgot" about them.
