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Spoilers DC's Legends of Tomorrow - Season 2

I assume that blowing up his Atom suit was an excuse to design a new Atom suit later, maybe a sleeker and less cumbersome one.
I don't think all of this stuff about Ray only being a hero because of his suit and learning to be one without it is heading in that direction....but I could be giving the show way too much credit.

Honestly, I'm surprised she'd even heard of them, since the idea of ninjas wasn't really known in the West until the 1960s.
My impression about her bit with Mick and the shuriken at the end was that she was revealing that she was a ninja...denying their existence was a cover. Or did I miss a part where she met ninjas other than Mick in the outfit? "In case you ever need proof you met an actual ninja." She was talking about herself.
 
It's also terribly convenient that they discover a hidden cache of future tech about five minutes before Ray's suit blows up. Hmm, I wonder what he'll do next....?

It was a hidden cache of future weapons, specifically. So I don't see that happening.

I'm wondering if this is the first bit of foreshadowing for the big "Invasion!" crossover next month.


My impression about her bit with Mick and the shuriken at the end was that she was revealing that she was a ninja...denying their existence was a cover. Or did I miss a part where she met ninjas other than Mick in the outfit? "In case you ever need proof you met an actual ninja." She was talking about herself.

How in the world could a hereditary defender of the Zambesi community in Africa be a member of a Japanese cult of spies and assassins? Sure, she's a fifth-degree black belt, but that's a whole different thing, and given that she never left Zambesi until the JSA recruited her, I'd assume she got her martial arts training from them. And historically, ninjas (or, more properly, shinobi) were already dying out at the time this episode was set, and Amaya is from 300 years later. Although, of course, it's possible that the DC Earth-1 reality has ninjas surviving to the present day, along with all the other fanciful stuff it has.

I took that scene to mean that she just found or recovered the shuriken from one of the ninjas that attacked Mick, and gave it to him as a peace offering.
 
How in the world could a hereditary defender of the Zambesi community in Africa be a member of a Japanese cult of spies and assassins?
I've got an answer lying around here somewhere....

It's nonsense. It's the opposite of logic, because it doesn't add up.
I think it was the clear intent of the scene. Story logic...historical accuracy...if these are things that you value, you're watching the wrong show.
 
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I didn't get that from the scene at all. She was just giving him a memento she picked up.
Considering that a) she didn't spend any time onscreen with ninjas in the episode, and b) her line was "In case you ever need proof you met an actual ninja"...that doesn't add up to "she found a shuriken lying around and picked it up". How does a shuriken that she found prove that he met a ninja?

That line was delivered in a fashion that suggested that she was revealing something.

Keep in mind that you just watched an episode about a 17th-century samurai using high-tech battle armor that doesn't even really exist in the 21st century.

But, whatever...this show is far too asinine to get wrapped up in pages and pages of arguing about it.

Was nobody bothered by the line about the United States not existing for 200 years? More like 100 and change, Hank the Historian.
 
This episode was ok. The suit being so easy to use is ridiculous. Ray training Nate was annoying (he was being pretty whiny). I mean, he's on a time machine. he can get the parts to rebuild the suit just by hoping back to 2016, even if he needs to find a new power source he's not exactly out of the game.

I didn't find the setting very compelling, so a lot of this episode wasn't very interesting. One thing that has become clear is that I really like Mick, he's grown from just the sidekick of Cold to a very entertaining character. He had a lot of good moments this episode, like when he didn't want to burn the ninja's because he really likes ninjas :lol: Overall, this was an ok but not very memorable episode.
 
The suit being so easy to use is ridiculous

The show really embraces its campy half baked self more than any other comic show besides Supergirl probably, which makes decent filler entertainment but also is the show's biggest weakness.

I assume Ray will get a new Atom suit.

Mick got a girlfriend awwwww lol
 
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I imagine that he will figure out how to shrink without using a super suit.

More in line with comics.

Using future tech on the wave rider, there should be at the very least hand weapons, with blasters far more powerful than the suit that Ray is using to keep him protected, and let him fly.

How many legion flight rings are in the armoury?

Although, even if it's a belt making him shrink and grow, that's the source of his powers and not him, which is the source of all his paranoid introspection, whether or not his abilities are biologically selfcontained... That I hope is a subject that is all over and done with.
 
I briefly mentioned this in my review of Arrow episode 5x04, Penance, but Shogun fell a bit flat for me in comparison to Out of Time and The Justice Society of America.

I did like that the episode didn't waste time in getting Amaya on board the Waverider or following her final interaction with Rex Tyler to its logical conclusion, although I do find it a bit limiting that she didn't go after ALL of the Legends and blame them as a group for Rex's death. Thankfully, though, any logical flaws I saw in that narrative decision were minimized by the way they integrated her into the team and the awesomeness of pairing her up with Sara, because they really make a great "tag team".

Another pair of characters that make a great "tag team" are Nate and Ray, although I think the writers missed out on an opportunity to play up their similarities in personality. I did like their interactions with Ichiro and Masada Yamashiro, even if I missed the connection between the surname and Katana, and thought the burgeoning romance between Nate and Masada was cute.

Circling back to my opening comment about the episode falling s bit flat in comparison to the first two episodes of the season, it was frustrating that we were given what was essentially a "holding pattern" episode that didn't do much, on the whole, to build on anything that had been set up by its predecessors and basically sidelined two of the characters just for the sake of cresting some false tension, as it makes very little sense for Stein and Jax not to tell their teammates about Future!Barry's message and even less sense for them not to have been involved in the mission to protect the Yamashiros' village from the Shogun.

It's also frustrating to see the show not give us much forward momentum in light of Arrow also delivering a disappointing episode.

Here's hoping that next week is better for both this show and Arrow, because I'm not sure I can handle another week of the Arrowverse shows needlessly "splitting the difference" in terms of quality.
 
Considering that a) she didn't spend any time onscreen with ninjas in the episode, and b) her line was "In case you ever need proof you met an actual ninja"...that doesn't add up to "she found a shuriken lying around and picked it up". How does a shuriken that she found prove that he met a ninja?

We didn't see her boarding of the Waverider onscreen either. She gets around when the camera isn't on her. Mick was attacked by ninjas in the woods, and he then arrived on the scene wearing "ninja robes." Those alone were hard evidence that the ninjas were real (leading me to wonder why Mick didn't keep them as proof). Amaya could've gone out to the forest and found the body of the ninja that Mick stole the clothes from, perhaps, and taken one of his shuriken.


That line was delivered in a fashion that suggested that she was revealing something.

It was delivered in a fashion indicating that she was offering an apology for accusing him of murder. An ongoing thread throughout the past two episodes has been Amaya's scorn for Mick as a criminal, and this episode was about her coming to respect him more. The gift of the shuriken was the payoff for that arc. That's why it was played as a significant moment. Audiences today have become so fixated on looking for plot twists and secrets that we forget to consider character development as an end in itself.

I think that if it had been meant to suggest something secret about Amaya, then Mick would've been staring at her with a puzzled or revelatory expression. Instead, he was just staring happily at the shuriken. And the camera stayed focused on him instead of her. The scene was about the emotion of the moment.

Besides, she's Vixen. She's got a magic amulet that gives her the powers of every animal on Earth. She doesn't need to be a ninja. That's just piling too many gimmicks onto one character. Not to mention that it would be redundant where the team is concerned, because, as Sara said, she's essentially a ninja. Sure, the episode played up the similarities between Sara and Amaya in terms of personality, but giving them too many parallels in abilities and background would be overdoing it.

Not to mention what a contrived coincidence it would be that they just randomly ended up in Tokugawa Japan on Amaya's first mission and she just happened to be a member of an ancient Japanese cult.


I did like that the episode didn't waste time in getting Amaya on board the Waverider or following her final interaction with Rex Tyler to its logical conclusion, although I do find it a bit limiting that she didn't go after ALL of the Legends and blame them as a group for Rex's death.

Well, only Mick and Sara had been introduced to her as killers. I'm not sure why she didn't suspect Sara, though. Maybe she found it more likely that a big, burly man like Mick could overpower Rex.


Another pair of characters that make a great "tag team" are Nate and Ray, although I think the writers missed out on an opportunity to play up their similarities in personality.

I thought the similarity came through clearly without the need to heavy-handedly call attention to it.


I did like their interactions with Ichiro and Masada Yamashiro, even if I missed the connection between the surname and Katana, and thought the burgeoning romance between Nate and Masada was cute.

That's Masako.


Circling back to my opening comment about the episode falling s bit flat in comparison to the first two episodes of the season, it was frustrating that we were given what was essentially a "holding pattern" episode that didn't do much, on the whole, to build on anything that had been set up by its predecessors

They have a whole season. Not every episode can or should focus directly on the main arc. There has to be room for changes of pace and sidebars, episodes that focus more on character and relationship-building than plot arcs.


and basically sidelined two of the characters just for the sake of cresting some false tension, as it makes very little sense for Stein and Jax not to tell their teammates about Future!Barry's message

They did make it clear -- twice -- that Barry implored Rip not to tell his team about his message and that Stein and Jax agreed it was best not to tell them. Maybe it's something that would probably get them killed if they knew about it, or the truth about some awful tragedy their actions caused. We won't know their reasons for keeping the secret until we know what the secret was.


and even less sense for them not to have been involved in the mission to protect the Yamashiros' village from the Shogun.

The ship was damaged and in need of repair. Jax is the engineer, so he needed to stay aboard. And Stein would've been of little use in Tokugawa Japan without Jax on hand.


It's also frustrating to see the show not give us much forward momentum in light of Arrow also delivering a disappointing episode.

It gave us plenty of momentum. It integrated Amaya into the team and established her background and relationships. It gave Nate his powers and a chance to learn how to use them. It brought about the end of the Atom suit 1.0 and opened the door for whatever will follow it. It introduced Barry's message, which will no doubt lead into some major story thread. No, it didn't maintain the same pace as previous episodes, but it shouldn't have. Sometimes you need to slow down and take the time to explore the characters and plant the seeds for future developments.
 
The suit should be easy to use. That's not farfetched. Ray should be able to shoot, shrink or move in an instant so its functions should be simple and accessible. All someone should be able to do is fiddle around a bit to get the hang of some basic functions. The only thing that should make it difficult to use is if it were locked somehow.
 
I assume Ray will get a new Atom suit.
He does.

This behind the scenes of the crossover photo that's been floating around, that was even posted in this thread, shows him in it.
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although I do find it a bit limiting that she didn't go after ALL of the Legends and blame them as a group for Rex's death.

Rex said "time traveler", singular, and the person stole the amulet.
Mick's the only (proud!) thief on board...
 
It's also terribly convenient that they discover a hidden cache of future tech about five minutes before Ray's suit blows up. Hmm, I wonder what he'll do next....?

In SuperHero stories if your face is partially covered it's completely protected, see: Diamondback's helmet, Batman's cowl, Alex Danvers' power suit, etc. :)
 
I finally watched the premiere this morning and I thought it was a lot of fun.
The stuff with Einstein was a lot of fun, and the whole thing with acknowledging his ex-wife's contributions to his work was nice. I got a big kick out of Stein fanboying over Einstein.
I liked that they had Einstein figure out right they were time travelers right away rather than trying to hide it all from him.
The stuff with Oliver was a nice little crossover.
I was surprised how quickly they brought everybody back together, I was expecting at least an episode or two of gathering everybody back up.
So was the rogue time traveler they kept talking about Reverse Flash, or a set up for a different big bad?
I really hope as the show goes on they stick with the set up for these first couple seasons with the core group of Sara, Mick, Stein, Jax, and Ray with another two or three characters who change each season.
 
So was the rogue time traveler they kept talking about Reverse Flash, or a set up for a different big bad?

It would appear so. He shows up in the next episode as well.

I really hope as the show goes on they stick with the set up for these first couple seasons with the core group of Sara, Mick, Stein, Jax, and Ray with another two or three characters who change each season.

I hope we get another season.
It's got the lowest ratings of the DCTV shows and a higher budget, so if any show goes to the chopping block it will be this one. We still don't know if it will get a full season this year.
 
^ I was thinking about this earlier. I can see it becoming a summer show like Beauty and the Beast.

I really hope as the show goes on they stick with the set up for these first couple seasons with the core group of Sara, Mick, Stein, Jax, and Ray with another two or three characters who change each season.
I miss Captain Cold, Rip and the Hawks. I this season's arrangement less.
 
We didn't see her boarding of the Waverider onscreen either. She gets around when the camera isn't on her. Mick was attacked by ninjas in the woods, and he then arrived on the scene wearing "ninja robes." Those alone were hard evidence that the ninjas were real (leading me to wonder why Mick didn't keep them as proof). Amaya could've gone out to the forest and found the body of the ninja that Mick stole the clothes from, perhaps, and taken one of his shuriken.
You can rationalize an explanation, but there's no basic storytelling logic there...as you underline yourself with the example of Mick's ninja outfit. The problem with this show is that lack of storytelling logic doesn't rule anything out.
 
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