Why isn't it possible that he gave consent telepathically at the very beginning of the mind meld?
The Vulcan mind meld. Star Trek Into Darkness Question
- Thread starter Gingerbread Demon
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Why isn't it possible that he gave consent telepathically at the very beginning of the mind meld?
M'Sharak already told you to stop with the aggressive and dismissive comments about rape and then this is the way you respond when someone tells you they are a survivor of sexual assault? Infraction for trolling. Comments to PM.
^ Who are you talking to? 
Rape is as much a violent act as it is a sexual act. Spock violently invaded Valeris' mind, against her will. She did NOT look comfortable as this was happening either. It was a forced entry into her mind. I can see that being a mental rape. Rape does not have to solely mean a penis in a vagina (or elsewhere) in this fictional reality where people can invade others' minds.
So not speaking of it before makes the comment invalid? I pointed out why I considered his actions to be mind rape. You may not agree, but my opinion of a fictional event is as valid as anyone's else.
As for the rest of your twaddle, that's pure silliness. Since you disagree with me, you're going to mock me by misusing the term. I suppose you believe that it's cute to turn my (perceived) misuse of the term against me. It isn't. It merely points out that you can't even argue it logically and since you can't, you want to laugh at me/make others laugh at me.
Of course the "is rape trivial" to me IS trolling, although I'm a big girl and can handle such absurd behavior by just playing it straight. Plus it's vastly insulting to a female, moreover one who just admitted a background of abuse, to say such.
[Redacted] I wasn't offended (takes a lot to get over my radar), I'm very mildly amused and more strongly saddened at such a petty attack.
At any rate, it didn't make me change my mind. It was an ugly scene (in that movie) that was very disturbing and if the author of the novelization knew of the scene ahead of time (which surely must have been the case given how it was written - it suggested direct knowledge of the movie scene), then that author should be ashamed of trivializing/denying the ugliness with that horrible way it was rewritten to suggest that the mind rape was something that the victim enabled. And bear in mind I couldn't stand Valeris.
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I just feel that, without hearing the author's perspective on the matter, or from anyone who would be in a position to comment on the situation as it existed at the time, we should assume good faith with regards to their intentions and "what did they know and when did they know it".
This is somewhat making me want to locate my copy of the novelization, but I doubt that'll happen anytime soon.
This is somewhat making me want to locate my copy of the novelization, but I doubt that'll happen anytime soon.
Not you.^ Who are you talking to?
Please have a seat, and take to PM any comments you may have concerning a moderator action. You know the drill.
Which novel? I do know that Nimoy commented on the ST6 scene with Valeris in his "I am Spock" book. I can try to find the relevant quotes if you like.
Why doesn't anyone ever compare the actions of Lwaxana Troi to rape? She is also rummaging around in minds, so it too is a violation. Do we only condemn the mental link if one of the people who take part seem to be distressed for a time? If so, we're okay with Spock removing Kirk's memories without his knowledge or consent while he slept?
The TUC novelization. T'Bonz (not to put words in her mouth) initially claimed that the author did a disservice by portraying the Spock-Valeris meld as being ultimately consensual, while I think it's just that the author knew there would be a meld but quite possibly didn't know the specifics of how it would be portrayed onscreen. In other words, they weren't ducking the situation, they simply didn't know there was going to be a situation in the first place.
Got it. See what I can find.
I don't see why Valeris would have consented to the meld since it was against her interest to do so.
To be honest, it did bug me that characters only ever seemed to find Lwaxana's invasions a mild annoyance. Especially as her abilities did seem to be selective, and she couldn't help opening her mouth and yapping about what she 'heard.' It stands out when characters like Tam (and even Troi herself) were given dressing downs about doing the exact same thing.
Mind, in TNG Lwaxana also avoided being seriously called out for being a sexual harasser in the 'normal' sense. So...it's really the usual failings of a lot of 'comedy' characters.
Spock erasing Kirk's memories was always shitty. 'Pain makes us who we are,' my ass.
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With Lwaxana I think it's meant to be a cultural thing, Betazoids are an open culture (they're into public nudity) and everyone is okay with sharing their thoughts and having their minds read by others as a matter of course.
Granted, Lwaxana spends enough time among non-Betazoids, was even married to one, that she should be more considerate when she's on the Enterprise, but then she is the batty aunt of TNG, so everyone just grins and bears it when she reads their minds.
Or maybe she just can't help it.
She certainly should be able to stop herself from verbally saying what she read in others' minds though.
She could be compulsive that way. You know like some sort of tourette's for example.
Can't remember if was just from the novels or raised on screen that Lwaxana is a very formidable telepath so it could be that she can't really control but as mentioned above perhaps a she should learn to filter what she says).
Except later (esp. in her Ds9 appearances), she's perfectly capable of dialing it the fuck down. Even after getting her space-alzheimers-menopause-thing.
In the end, Lwaxana was meant to be like Mudd and Neelix - she pulled irritating shit because she was just that obnoxious and oblivious (yet also funny and likeable.) Whether that characterisation works is a matter of personal opinion.
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