I think it's time to bring in the sarcasm sign...
Did Sisko ever forgive Picard?
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I'll just quote Bashir in Inter Arma Enim SIlent Leges: "Next time I'll do the lecture with hand puppets just for you."
If you'd been paying attention, you'd have already realised that at no point did I claim Sisko's behaviour wasn't rational, only that there was an understandable reason WHY he was being irrational. You, on the other hand, just argued for Picard brushing him off for no reason.
And with regard to the part of the post you bolded, of course I was being fucking sarcastic. I think the puppets might be too advanced for you, should we try crayons?
Well, one can't make friends with every one.
You may be quoting Bashir but this is skirting dangerously close to flaming.
This isn't helping either and is also dangerously close to flaming.
Both of you need to take a step back. There have been some good points on both sides of the issue worth exploring, but if I see any more posts like this infractions will follow.
Yes, we really don't know how Picard would have reacted if the two changed places.
The only time when we saw Picard turn into a seething ball of vengefulness was in First Contact about the borg, aside from this extreme with more than enough extenuating circumstances (he had been assimilated, his thoughts taken over, his body drilled into), he seems to be the forgive and forget type of man. However, I am open to debate on that, as long as it is done in a civil way. Also valid examples from the series or the movies wouldn't hurt your case.
Perhaps you didn't note the context of the dialogue I posted?
I beg to differ. My response was adequate, it concerned Picard holding a grudge against people who wronged him. He only did that to the borg and the borg did A LOT. Otherwise, the Cardassians for example tortured him for several days, yet he was more than civil with Gul Evek in Journey's End. He ,never said to him "The last time I saw a Cardassian he was asking me to count how many lights there were in the room." If you see what I mean.
You want it to be about something specific: Sisko's anger (I wonder why?). Yet you have argued repeatedly that some "special training" would have allowed Sisko to move on, thus we can considered his emotions not something that is hardwired into his psychology, but an optional grudge, something for which Picard should "teach him a lesson" (dog whistles!).
What kind of training did these officers have? We clearly see in the episode "Lessons" that the training Picard received--whatever that was supposed to be--was thrown out the door. No, he wasn't angry. However, the thought itself of losing Nella Daren, a woman he had just met, not someone he was married to, was enough to overwhelm that training, as well as his better judgement and sense of duty.
Yes, locutus101, Picard might have allowed people to die rather than risk his love. His EMOTIONS were too much for his training. Picard turned out to be no better than Sisko.
I am sorry. Did we see a different "Lessons"? Because I don't remember Picard doing anything in favor of the woman he loved. In fact she was among the last ones to evacuate the planet and until then he didn't know if she was alive.
So tell me, what did he do that was unethical in that episode. I'd be very curious to know. What did he do that was anything else than his duty?
It is what he contemplated he would that would be an abrogation of his training. His EMOTIONS were too strong. Live with it.
If Picard came face to face with the Borg who assimilated him and said ex Borg was now back to their normal racial origin and wearing a Starfleet Admiral uniform, I believe Picard would act just like Sisko.
The point being, they weren't strong enough to make him do or say things that he should have been ashamed of. He had emotions, internalized, however no inappropriate words or behavior .
True. He doesn't say a word.
That experience was not his personal breaking point. Darrin was a new relationship, not his long term lover, wife or mother of his children. However we saw his personal breaking point in First Contact. Worf almost killed him over it.
He excused himself right after. That's different from holding a grudge for years. Picard is capable of getting angry, in excessively rare circumstances but not being incapable of seeing that someone has nothing to do with his problems over a period of several years. It's like the difference between a ton and a gram.
How long did he hold the grudge against the Borg, it took Guinan for him to see 'Hugh' as a victim like himself. Besides Sisko lost his wife and years later faced her killer, Picard has never shared that experience.
Picard has had his fair share of problems and we've never seen him do anything close to what Sisko did to him. He's been assimilated and then brought back by the skin of his teeth. When he was a borg, he likely was certain that he would never be a human again. You can't trivialize that kind of anguish. Even being tortured by the cardassians was probably nothing in comparison.
Sisko behaved like he had zero empathy. and as I said not for a few minutes, not as something someone could say when he's in a fit of anger, for YEARS, in a cold blooded sort of way, he was incapable of acknowledging Picard's victimhood and I think that's terrible. Besides I don't believe that's how Sisko, that's how he's been written.
Most of the time Sisko acts like a normal person with normal flaws and an intelligence superior to average. But once in a while the writers make him behave like a fool and that's too bad.
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