What are your thoughts about seeing the prime universe again?

[urbandefault]

I'm sorry, the "head canon" was not intended as a snide remark, and I apologize if it came across as one. I just firmly belive everyone has it's own head-canon. I, for myself, usually try to explain gross scientific inaccuracies if I see them. In Trek09 for example, when Spock sees the destruction of Vulcan from Delta Vega, in my personal head canon he's just greatly exxagerating his personal experience of said events. How the destruction felt to him a few lightyears away. Not that he actually saw it firsthand as depicted.

I don't. I accept the stories as presented, not as I would like them to be. They don't have to connect, they don't have to fit some preconceived timeline. It's pure entertainment for me. Nothing more.

I said that because in your head-canon he was only "mostly dead" - wheras in the actual movie is was super-fucking dead. Or how you explain Khan's blood works (which actually makes more sense than in the movie), even though that's not how it worked on the tribble (that also was super-dead), or the little girl (where we saw that it's indeed Khan's blood that is directly pumped into her to cure her of all her diseases).

It was a joke. See The Princess Bride.

And again, that doesn't mean anybody should dislike it. But "Spock's Brain", "Threshold" et al. where also viciously taken apart for their scientific inaccuracies. I don't see any reasons to cut Into Darkness more slack for it, just because it's newer.

I think "Spock's Brain" is hilarious. Not because it was supposed to be, just because it is. I don't really care for Voyager, so I don't watch it. No big deal.

 

[Rahul]

@Nerys Myk : Thank you for putting the quotes right here!

Now: I have to admit it's a loong time ago that I watched TOS. But basically in every mindscrew/illusions episode there were some dead cast members that haven't really died. I don't think they can count.

As for STID:
Keep in mind: the guy put in an induced coma was one of Khans crewmembers whose cryogenit tube they needed. Kirks himself was dead. The tube stopped the decaying of his brain. But he was dead. Not "mostly dead". Dead. Setting a "barely" before that is purely semantic. When somebody is "barely alive" it means he's still alive. Someone "barely dead" is dead. With a pretty looking corpse, but dead nevertheless.

That still leaves the major problem of all of this: Nobody needs to die anymore. Whenever someone dies and his body is not completely desintegrated - like having a heart attack, his organs completely annhilated (radiation is pretty cruel), radiated, shot - whatever. They can put his fresh corpes in a cryogenic tube, and heal him with Khan's blood. That's a universe-changing discovery! Dying of old age is only a matter of organ failure. Cured with Khans blood! That's Torchwood's "Miracle day" level of change right there.

 

[Rahul]

I don't. I accept the stories as presented, not as I would like them to be. They don't have to connect, they don't have to fit some preconceived timeline. It's pure entertainment for me. Nothing more.

Well, except for Into Darkness

It was a joke. See The Princess Bride.

I know. But in Princess Bride it was handeled better!

I think "Spock's Brain" is hilarious. Not because it was supposed to be, just because it is. I don't really care for Voyager, so I don't watch it. No big deal.

Well, Discovery takes place in the prime universe again. On the other side of the river we have red matter instant singularity™, magic blood curing the dead and transwarp beaming. Here we have Spock's Brain, Threshold's warp10 salamanders, and A night in sickbay. And be prepared for Discovery to be taken apart for it's major blunders as well. Doesn't mean we don't like it. Means only we don't like everything in it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Now: I have to admit it's a loong time ago that I watched TOS. But basically in every mindscrew/illusions episode there were some dead cast members that haven't really died. I don't think they can count.

None of the ones I mentioned were mindscrews/illusion. McCoy, Scott and Spock were dead and brought back by super science.

As for STID:
Keep in mind: the guy put in an induced coma was one of Khans crewmembers whose cryogenit tube they needed. Kirks himself was dead. The tube stopped the decaying of his brain. But he was dead. Not "mostly dead". Dead. Setting a "barely" before that is purely semantic. When somebody is "barely alive" it means he's still alive. Someone "barely dead" is dead. With a pretty looking corpse, but dead nevertheless.

Yes I know it was a Khanian in the cryotube. And the tube stopped Kirk's brain from dying. Barely dead and barely alive are pretty much the same thing. Like half a glass of water.

That still leaves the major problem of all of this: Nobody needs to die anymore. Whenever someone dies and his body is not completely desintegrated - like having a heart attack, his organs completely annhilated (radiation is pretty cruel), radiated, shot - whatever. They can put his fresh corpes in a cryogenic tube, and heal him with Khan's blood. That's a universe-changing discovery! Dying of old age is only a matter of organ failure. Cured with Khans blood!

Why is this a problem? They now have a treatment for severe radiation sickness. ( I think they're curing it with shots by TNG's time) Again this is a problem, why? Of course you have to survive the cure, which seems to be pretty rough. But If you were barely dead I guess it doesn't matter

The regenerative properties of the Genesis process should also be a game changer ( Come get your new youthful body, gramps!) The advance medtech of the Shore Leave planet should also be a game changer. (massive chest trauma? No problem!) What about the anti aging serum from the Deadly Years? Geriatric no more!

 

[BillJ]

The regenerative properties of the Genesis process should also be a game changer ( Come get your new youthful body, gramps!) The advance medtech of the Shore Leave planet should also be a game changer. (massive chest trauma? No problem!) What about the anti aging serum from the Deadly Years? Geriatric no more!

Also, the spores used to regrow organs from "This Side of Paradise", and the transporter used to cure/de-age Pulaski in "Unnatural Selection".

 

[Nyotarules]

That said, lens flare and Spock's "Khaaan!" moment thoroughly break my suspension of disbelief and remain laughable.

That's when it switched from scifi action movie to scifi comedy. Ok it really started from 'My name is Khan' it was either hold head in hands or laugh till I pissed. I chose the latter

 

[urbandefault]

Well, except for Into Darkness

I know. But in Princess Bride it was handeled better!

Well, Discovery takes place in the prime universe again. On the other side of the river we have red matter instant singularity™, magic blood curing the dead and transwarp beaming. Here we have Spock's Brain, Threshold's warp10 salamanders, and A night in sickbay. And be prepared for Discovery to be taken apart for it's major blunders as well. Doesn't mean we don't like it. Means only we don't like everything in it.

Ok, well, good talk. Have a nice day.

 

[BillJ]

...transwarp beaming.

Transwarp beaming was already a thing. See: "Bloodlines" (TNG).

 

[Nerys Myk]

Transwarp beaming was already a thing. See: "Bloodlines" (TNG).

I've never understood the problem with that one either. It's an advancement of a known fictional technology.( from the fictional future of the fictional universe!) We also saw a version of it in Assignment Earth.

 

[BillJ]

I've never understood the problem with that one either. It's an advancement of a known fictional technology.( from the fictional future of the fictional universe!) We also saw a version of it in Assignment Earth.

Because then you no longer need teh starships!!!

 

[{ Emilia }]

That still leaves the major problem of all of this: Nobody needs to die anymore. Whenever someone dies and his body is not completely desintegrated - like having a heart attack, his organs completely annhilated (radiation is pretty cruel), radiated, shot - whatever. They can put his fresh corpes in a cryogenic tube, and heal him with Khan's blood. That's a universe-changing discovery!

Just like transwarp beaming.
Kurtzman and Orci come up with these "fun" ideas without even considering how much that should really change the universe. I mean, why even send ships to other planets we already know when we can just use the transporter and be there instantly?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Just like transwarp beaming.
Kurtzman and Orci come up with these "fun" ideas without even considering how much that should really change the universe. I mean, why even send ships to other planets we already know when we can just use the transporter and be there instantly?

All game changing tech in Star Trek is locked way in a vault apparently. That's why they aren't transwarp teleporting androids and holograms to the other side of the Galaxy

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm eager to see the prime universe again. It still has plenty of life left to it.

 

[BillJ]

Just like transwarp beaming.
Kurtzman and Orci come up with these "fun" ideas without even considering how much that should really change the universe. I mean, why even send ships to other planets we already know when we can just use the transporter and be there instantly?

Transwarp beaming didn't start with the Abrams films, as noted upthread. Also, it would seem to be a natural progression of the technology.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Transwarp beaming didn't start with the Abrams films, as noted upthread. Also, it would seem to be a natural progression of the technology.

I didn't see that. I just checked memory alpha and there's no mention of transwarp beaming before Kurtzman and Orci started fucking with the franchise.

What annoyed me about STID wasn't that Khan's blood was good enough to save Kirk's life. It was just that the whole movie totally lacked that sense of fear for our main characters. Old Trek went through with it and killed Spock (for most of one movie. ) whereas the drama in STID kinda suffers from the fact that Kirk gets revived almost instantly. I never bought the drama at all, and Spock's "Khaaan" just made it even more comical.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I didn't see that. I just checked memory alpha and there's no mention of transwarp beaming before Kurtzman and Orci started fucking with the franchise.

Its not called that. But similar technology has been presented.

 

[BillJ]

I didn't see that. I just checked memory alpha and there's no mention of transwarp beaming before Kurtzman and Orci started fucking with the franchise.

"Gamesters of Triskelion", "Assignment: Earth", "That Which Survives", and "Bloodlines". To name a few where people or objects were sent a very long way with no ship.

Heck, Roddenberry toyed with the idea of people beaming everywhere and there being no ship while creating TNG.

 

[{ Emilia }]

What if the show is being delayed for a few months because they redesigned Discovery not to be a ship but just a big transporter platform?

 

[BillJ]

What if the show is being delayed for a few months because they redesigned Discovery not to be a ship but just a big transporter platform?

Since it's "Prime" it would violate continuity. But, it would make any real difference? It will still succeed or fail based on how entertaining it is.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Since it's "Prime" it would violate continuity. But, it would make any real difference? It will still succeed or fail based on how entertaining it is.

Well, the last time that show was created it ran for 10 seasons and spawned two spin-offs.
They just called their transporter a stargate.