Should TOS characters be seen or referred to?

[jaime]

I just read the part where Piller regretted what was on screen. He said his attempt to bring Data back to his Pinocchio roots and ignore the emotion chip did not work, and made Data ineffective and childish beyond the ethics protocols scene.

The dialog is terrible. Picard asking Worf if he knows GIlbert and Sullivan and looking at him like he's crazy when thinks Picard meant crewmembers. And who's 19th century?. Data serving as a flotation device? Lock and Load? Writing/casting an all-white Ba'ku, which they admit they are now ashamed of in how that slipped by them. The joystick helm control [shudder].

On the flip side, F. Murray and Zerbe were great. Really great. And it did have a story with a relevant message of forced relocation. Just horrible execution.

I am desperate to read these books, but gonna have to wait....I did read Fade In, which was a real eye opener about that film, and Patrick Stewart.

 

[Kevin Wolff]

I am desperate to read these books, but gonna have to wait....I did read Fade In, which was a real eye opener about that film, and Patrick Stewart.

I highly recommend them but they are a frustrating read. Most books are written from a single viewpoint. Here we get ALL of the viewpoints and have to make up our own minds, as it should be when chronicling a collaborative effort. I've never read Fade In but will check it out.

 

[jaime]

I highly recommend them but they are a frustrating read. Most books are written from a single viewpoint. Here we get ALL of the viewpoints and have to make up our own minds, as it should be when chronicling a collaborative effort. I've never read Fade In but will check it out.

Fade In was never published, hunt it out on the Internet. It's Michael Piller himself writing about the writing of Insurrection. He willed it to be released on the net after his death, but paramount got it pulled within a few days.

Those books are the kind I loved when I was a kid...I have all the Captains Logs books, and recently read 'Return to Tomorrow' about Star Trek the motion picture. Between that and Chekovs Enterpise it was like being there in the late seventies lol. They should make a film based on it. Or a mini series, a 12 hour adaptation of the making of Star Trek TMP. Start it in 69 as the show is cancelled, and go from there right up to the premier. It would be awesome.

 

[Kevin Wolff]

Fade In was never published, hunt it out on the Internet. It's Michael Piller himself writing about the writing of Insurrection. He willed it to be released on the net after his death, but paramount got it pulled within a few days.

Those books are the kind I loved when I was a kid...I have all the Captains Logs books, and recently read 'Return to Tomorrow' about Star Trek the motion picture. Between that and Chekovs Enterpise it was like being there in the late seventies lol. They should make a film based on it. Or a mini series, a 12 hour adaptation of the making of Star Trek TMP. Start it in 69 as the show is cancelled, and go from there right up to the premier. It would be awesome.

Now I remember. Piller talked about that book. Said it was a text book for writers and Insurrection was the case study. Paramount didn't feel the same way about readers getting a peek behind the scenes (including their notes), and terminated his deal to have it published. Now I'm really curious to read it.

 

[jaime]

Now I remember. Piller talked about that book. Said it was a text book for writers and Insurrection was the case study. Paramount didn't feel the same way about readers getting a peek behind the scenes (including their notes), and terminated his deal to have it published. Now I'm really curious to read it.

I have a copy of the file somewhere probably. (given its shakey status...I allegedly might have the file somewhere or someone might. Or it might be google fuable.)
Its pretty good and really deserved publishing.

 

[loghaD]

I'd like to see some references, but not too much. Most of the Enterprise crew weren't particularly famous at that time, and I don't think they should be treated as such. The Tycho IV incident could be referred to, and maybe some of the adventures of Captain Pike and crew, but I think that should be about it.

If the show goes on for quite a few seasons, one thing that might be cool to see is a sort of "here comes the cavalry" moment where the Enterprise beams in to save the Discovery from imminent destruction, and the crew gets to meet Pike and Spock. I realize that having the protagonists be rescued by the protagonists of another show might rub some people the wrong way, but I think it'd be really cool to see the Enterprise from another crew's perspective.

 

[Ovation]

I'd like to see some references, but not too much. Most of the Enterprise crew weren't particularly famous at that time, and I don't think they should be treated as such. The Tycho IV incident could be referred to, and maybe some of the adventures of Captain Pike and crew, but I think that should be about it.

If the show goes on for quite a few seasons, one thing that might be cool to see is a sort of "here comes the cavalry" moment where the Enterprise beams in to save the Discovery from imminent destruction, and the crew gets to meet Pike and Spock. I realize that having the protagonists be rescued by the protagonists of another show might rub some people the wrong way, but I think it'd be really cool to see the Enterprise from another crew's perspective.

That scenario would probably work better in reverse, at least for fans who start with the new show.

 

[Shikarnov]

To the OP, I say: only if necessary. It shouldn't be something they're trying to do, but there are some instances when it just wouldn't make sense to exclude them. For example, if there's a large fleet deployment -- say, for a skirmish with the Klingons -- it would make sense that one or more of Starfleet's top ships would be on the scene, giving us a chance to see the Enterprise, or the Lexington, or Exeter. That might be a point at which it would be expected to namedrop without it seeming blatantly awkward. "Orders coming in from Captain Pike - we're to engage at coordinates blah blah blah" or some such.

 

[arch101]

Once the show is established, I wouldn't be averse to a recast Pike, Spock and the Enterprise of that era making a special guest appearance.
Beyond that, there's an opportunity to show why some Trek eps happened. Why did John Gill go to study a facist culture anyway? What was Matt Decker like at his full capacity? Maybe Discovery is in on Kirk's first visit to those native American people? How about Captain Garth? Occupied Bajor? etc etc

 

[CorporalClegg]

Only scene in the whole movie that I actually like.

Me too.

I almost like the hummingbird scene, but it really just makes me realize all the wasted potential.

 

[Tenacity]

Occupied Bajor?

Bajor was occupied by Cardassia about fifty years prior to the start of DS9, so not during the time period of Discovery.

When I first read "Occupied Bajor," I thought of Occupied Wallstreet, The Cardassian show up where they're not wanted, looking to get some else's stuff, which the legitimate possessors didn't want to give up.

 

[jaime]

Me too.

I almost like the hummingbird scene, but it really just makes me realize all the wasted potential.

The thing is, that's the kind of thing that's supposed to show up and be used in the finale of a film, not twice in the middle. Between that and leaving the green screens up, I wonder if something else got trimmed in production. Picard and his wondrous time stopping ability was a bit too super hero though.

 

[Tallguy]

I'd be stunned if lieutenant Kirk doesn't make an appearance in the second season. I'll be kind of surprised if anyone does in the first.

So I started watching Enterprise last night. I'm digging it. Because I'm not putting the baggage of 40 years of Star Trek on it. I think if I approach Discovery the same way I should be cool.

Didn't work for Into Darkness though. Still hated most of it. (LOVED the teaser. Weird.)

 

[Kevin Wolff]

I'm guessing Pike's crew minus Spock if we see anyone from the main storylines. Along with a redesigned pre-refit 1701. I just hope that if they do, they cast and write him like Hunter did, not Greenwood. I like Greenwood but his Pike is too even tempered and well adjusted to be interesting, and way too old. Hunter's Pike was Picard with issues.

 

[Deacon]

I think it would frustrate me more than anything if they used the actors from the new movies to portray their younger selves. I don't know why.

I'm with you, and it's more than likely that they will not go that route. A lot of those actors would be too high-budget I would think, and it would confuse people as to the timeline. I'd much rather them do the occasional namedrop.

 

[Ovation]

Well, I'd rather they use the current "new crew" than re-cast again (though it's highly unlikely it would happen). I think the audience is intelligent enough not to get confused.

As to cost, I don't think a very short appearance would be prohibitive. A full guest-star appearance for two or three episodes would be pricey, but also (to me) undesirable. In the end, I'd rather a simple name drop, at most, for any of the Enterprise crew.

 

[Phoenix219]

Ron Moore spoke of his ideas for Voyager while it was on the air around the time he did his one or two eps. He said that it would have to be completely different, almost different than DS9. The rules of starfleet would not apply at all beyond basic morality, and they could not waste power, essentially bringing the ship out of the 24th that was already getting stale and bring them back to a more savage 23rd mentality. No holodecks. The holodecks would be converted to schools and agriculture, etc.

The Maquis would never wear starfleet uniforms nor would they behave like starfleet and that alone could have driven a chunk of the drama in the first couple years. Janeway would be forced to deal with them as equals, not subordinates. They'd integrate out of necessity, not for morale. Imagine Torres becomes engineer after Carey is killed and there's no one else, rather than some choice made between a starfleet officer and a criminal.

Also he said it should be a generational ship mentality. Replacing lost crew with new alien allies and having children would be a priority to keep going. The ship would get beat up over time and would start looking different since they'd need to use non-federation tech for repairs and upgrades. Also, the interior would be decorated like people live there, not just work there. The different cultures would be expressed through their art and decor.

I think they should have formed a convoy over time too. A lone ship on a journey that long with little foreknowledge was the biggest issue to me. Power consumption a close second. A couple main characters should have died or stayed behind too.

Now *that* is a show that I would have watched..... and much more of what I expected initially....

Of an originally introduced well-liked, enduring, major, live-action character that has been quickly recast as a well-liked, enduring, major, live-action character, the only one I can think of, outside of TOS, is Paul McCartney, who was recast as "Paul McCartney." (Only we old guys know about this. Right, Dennis?)..

I won't even pretend to understand the McCartney joke.

 

[KennyB]

Only if it's an 8 year old Pavel Chekov on a field trip..........kidding.

 

[jaime]

Now *that* is a show that I would have watched..... and much more of what I expected initially....



I won't even pretend to understand the McCartney joke.

Google 'Paul is Dead' its rather interesting.

 

[Spot261]

Anecdote: I hit him in a van in 2003....he survived