STC Ep. 7: "Embrace The Winds" speculation and discussion....

[CorporalCaptain]

The indications are from the beginning ("The Cage") that women were supposed to be on equal footing with men. The intent if not the full-fledged execution was there.

Ah. So that's why Pike said, "It's just that I can't get used to having a woman on the bridge." Makes sense.

No, wait, it doesn't. Actually, it sounds like things are in the process of changing, and that women are just at that point getting promoted to senior officer positions. That actually dovetails perfectly with Roddenberry's vision of no female starship captains in "Turnabout Intruder." With only twelve starships, at least for the sake of argument assuming that in this case "starship" means "like the Enterprise," and with women only recently in senior officer positions, relatively speaking, it would actually make sense and not be unexpected, if there were still none in those 12 highly-prized positions, even fifteen years later.

In fact, maybe TI was simply referring to just the 12 (what we now call) Constitution-class starships, and maybe promotion was actually merit-based, but women with qualifications hadn't filtered up through the ranks to those few prestigious posts, because they had previously been discriminated against up until sometime just before the events of "The Cage."

Take Roddenberry's anecdotes for what they're worth, but he claimed that he originally proposed the crew be half female, but the network objected because, "Don't you see? It's going to look like there's a lot of fooling around going on up there!" so he reduced it to one-third.

Roddenberry once stated that the initial ratio of the Crew was 50/50 and the network made him change it because it implied the unmarried crew would be pairing up. Then Roddenberry stated that if you applied the same logic to the resulting 1/3, 2/3 ratio implied the women would be sleeping with more than one man.

Was any of that about the network true? We may never know.

If that could be corroborated, it would be most interesting indeed. Unfortunately, GR has quite a history of self-serving myth-making and blaming the network, and other people in general, for things that they simply didn't do.

 

[Warped9]

It should be noted that in ETW they make a point of saying no woman has commanded a Constitution-class starship. But there are lots of other classes of ships in Starfleet. This would be akin to a woman never having commanded a Galaxy-glass ship in TNG and we never saw that either.

 

[rRico]

Ah. So that's why Pike said, "It's just that I can't get used to having a woman on the bridge." Makes sense.

No, wait, it doesn't. Actually, it sounds like things are in the process of changing, and that women are just at that point getting promoted to senior officer positions.

Pike says that about Colt to his First Officer. He does not seem to have any reservations about her.
From the perspective of a 1960s writer and audience that line makes some sense, cluing the viewers in to the fact that things in this future society are much more inclusive and egalitarian than they are used to.

From within the timeline of the canon the idea that women are only now in the mid 2260s being promoted to senior officer posts does not make any sense. Unless we were to accept that the Federation and Starfleet fell back into the kind of thinking that was obviously no longer present during the times of Captain Hernandez a hundred years earlier.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Pike says that about Colt to his First Officer.

It means that Pike isn't used to there being more than one woman around, and it means that if he notices them then it breaks his rhythm. How exactly does it support the idea that men and women are on equal footing?

 

[Warped9]

It means that Pike isn't used to there being more than one woman around, and it means that if he notices them then it breaks his rhythm. How exactly does it support the idea that men and women are on equal footing?

It was a very clumsily written bit to try to get this idea accross.

Looking at that scene it isn't so much Colt being a woman, but rather her being so earnest and underfoot. Compare this scene with the one between Kirk and Rand in "The Corbomite Maneuver" when Rand brings Kirk his meal. He, too, gets impatient and yet it just rolls of Rand like water off a duck. Rand was less self-conscious and more self-assured.

 

[mos6507]

It was a very clumsily written bit to try to get this idea accross.

Looking at that scene it isn't so much Colt being a woman, but rather her being so earnest and underfoot. Compare this scene with the one between Kirk and Rand in "The Corbomite Maneuver" when Rand brings Kirk his meal. He, too, gets impatient and yet it just rolls of Rand like water off a duck. Rand was less self-conscious and more self-assured.

The intended subplot of Colt (and Rand) to subconsciously pine for the affections of the Captain doesn't exactly pass the Bechtel test. Then again, at least they both kept a lid on it, unlike, let's say the whole distracting soap-opera of K/U in NuTrek.

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

Pike says that about Colt to his First Officer. He does not seem to have any reservations about her.
From the perspective of a 1960s writer and audience that line makes some sense, cluing the viewers in to the fact that things in this future society are much more inclusive and egalitarian than they are used to.

From within the timeline of the canon the idea that women are only now in the mid 2260s being promoted to senior officer posts does not make any sense. Unless we were to accept that the Federation and Starfleet fell back into the kind of thinking that was obviously no longer present during the times of Captain Hernandez a hundred years earlier.

And that would certainly require throwing out the kind of Whig future history that Star Trek is associated with. I dunno, what can you do except delete Enterprise from your personal canon?

 

[Warped9]

I dunno, what can you do except delete Enterprise from your personal canon?

Done.

In fact it has never been part of my personal canon.

 

[uniderth]

Done.

In fact it has never been part of my personal canon.

Amen and Amen!

 

[Tom Hendricks]

I just watched the episode. While the episode was nice, I had some serious issues with how the story played out. Would Starfleet recall the Captain and First Officer from a ship, while sending that ship on a sensitive investigation of losing all hands aboard that ship? Maybe, but I don't buy it. Wouldn't the Enterprise pick up Admiral Grey along the way and go render the assistance required? Wouldn't Garrick show up with Vulcan Captain to assist in helping with the ship and then that part of the story go from there? Also having an inquiry to decided who would be the next Captain before the ship was salvaged seems really weird. There are still dead bodies strewn all over the ship and they are investigating who would be best suited to be its Captain, to what crew? I just didn't really like the conceit of this episode I guess.

 

[alensatemybuick1]

Found another reference to Bloch wanting Uhura in command in Catspaw here (same source):

http://www.startrek.com/article/bjo-john-trimble-remember-robert-bloch

 

[captainkirk]

ENT had a woman in command of a starship in the 22nd century. TVH had a woman in command of a starship in the post-TOS 23rd cetntury. The meeting room scene in STID which is just before TOS had at least one woman with captain's stripes plus a Vulcan woman with commander's stripes. This is one of those canon issues where you kind of have to disregard the part that presents a problem, and in this case it's Turnabout Intruder since it clearly goes against everything else we know.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Found another reference to Bloch wanting Uhura in command in Catspaw here (same source):

http://www.startrek.com/article/bjo-john-trimble-remember-robert-bloch

Calling, @Harvey. You come across any documents on this?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

ENT had a woman in command of a starship in the 22nd century. TVH had a woman in command of a starship in the post-TOS 23rd cetntury. The meeting room scene in STID which is just before TOS had at least one woman with captain's stripes plus a Vulcan woman with commander's stripes. This is one of those canon issues where you kind of have to disregard the part that presents a problem, and in this case it's Turnabout Intruder since it clearly goes against everything else we know.

That's exactly what I've been saying, but some people don't see TI as a problem.

 

[Warped9]

Found another reference to Bloch wanting Uhura in command in Catspaw here (same source):

http://www.startrek.com/article/bjo-john-trimble-remember-robert-bloch

So after saying they had no problem with Number One (as a character) NBC now backtracks and isn't comfortable with a woman in temporary command, and a black woman at that.

I suspect her being black was the real barrier.

 

[alensatemybuick1]

Or a black woman specifically. Commodore Stone, as pointed out prev. Was both black and a former Starship captain (not to mention Kirk's superior).

 

[Harvey]

Calling, @Harvey. You come across any documents on this?

Sounds like total bunk, but I'd have to check. As I recall, Bloch kills of Sulu in that script. It's a bit of a mess.

I'll make a note to check next time I am at UCLA.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Interesting that the first female starship captain seen on screen was a black woman.

 

[F. King Daniel]

You guys are all getting caught up in the nitpicky continuity and ignoring the point of the episode. Besides, Continues isn't canon. It's a very authentic-feeling fan film. They're free to (re)interpret Trek however they see fit.

 

[Warped9]

You guys are all getting caught up in the nitpicky continuity and ignoring the point of the episode. Besides, Continues isn't canon. It's a very authentic-feeling fan film. They're free to (re)interpret Trek however they see fit.

And we're free to critique it particularly given they get so many other things right.