The Admiral never indented to become a rogue element of Starfleet. In fact he was counting on his position to make it work. The Villain in ENT started his "career" by declaring war to the federation. They have very Little in common other than being people resorting to violence and murder but in that case there are hundreds of people like them in all the stories.
Did Enterprise have to grow on anyone else?
- Thread starter Danlav05
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The Admiral never indented to become a rogue element of Starfleet. In fact he was counting on his position to make it work. The Villain in ENT started his "career" by declaring war to the federation. They have very Little in common other than being people resorting to violence and murder but in that case there are hundreds of people like them in all the stories.
Agree to disagree. To me they seem pretty much cloned.
How about admiral Leyton on DS9? He's much closer to being Admiral Marcus than his lookalike of Terra Prime.
These Are The Voyages playing now.
Like a lot of Enterprise's base plots, I actually think the episode set up could have been a good idea - future crews playing a mission on the holodeck. Not as a series finale, but obviously the writers didn't plan on it being the series finale so they get a free pass on that. Only a little bit in but moments are jumping out at me.
10 years since the Enterprise launched? Even if this wasn't the finale you just killed all tension for however much longer the series remained on the air. Now we know that no matter what no main crew member dies before this point or, hell, even gets promoted / transferred off the ship.
When Trip and Malcolm are in engineering and this exchange happens:
M: "...there will be another Enterprise before too long."
T: "I imagine."
M: " Won't be the same."
I was hoping Trip would answer
"No, it will be better."
Edit : Ten years seems pretty early to decommission the Enterprise when it looks to be in perfect working order. The Columbia took what, four years to build - so maybe there are three other NX class ships out there, and they're already decommissioning one of them? I get their tech is outdated compared to the other Federation planets, but it seems a waste to garbage the Enterprise so soon. This isn't a direct criticism of the episode, there are a thousand reasons it could be decommissioned, more a general question.
Edit again: Well, that's it for Enterprise.
I can see why Tucker fans were upset - his death wasn't particularly well handled. With all the moments through the series where a main character should have died killing him here was pretty lame. His death would have had more impact of the mission was more connected to the founding of the Federation, and not some random bad guys angry at Shran.
Over all, I have to say the series deserved it's fate. The few highs come no where close to cancelling out the sheer drudgery that most of this series was. Lots of potential, but it never came close to living up to it.
Goodbye Hoshi.
Like a lot of Enterprise's base plots, I actually think the episode set up could have been a good idea - future crews playing a mission on the holodeck. Not as a series finale, but obviously the writers didn't plan on it being the series finale so they get a free pass on that. Only a little bit in but moments are jumping out at me.
10 years since the Enterprise launched? Even if this wasn't the finale you just killed all tension for however much longer the series remained on the air. Now we know that no matter what no main crew member dies before this point or, hell, even gets promoted / transferred off the ship.
When Trip and Malcolm are in engineering and this exchange happens:
M: "...there will be another Enterprise before too long."
T: "I imagine."
M: " Won't be the same."
I was hoping Trip would answer
"No, it will be better."
Edit : Ten years seems pretty early to decommission the Enterprise when it looks to be in perfect working order. The Columbia took what, four years to build - so maybe there are three other NX class ships out there, and they're already decommissioning one of them? I get their tech is outdated compared to the other Federation planets, but it seems a waste to garbage the Enterprise so soon. This isn't a direct criticism of the episode, there are a thousand reasons it could be decommissioned, more a general question.
Edit again: Well, that's it for Enterprise.
I can see why Tucker fans were upset - his death wasn't particularly well handled. With all the moments through the series where a main character should have died killing him here was pretty lame. His death would have had more impact of the mission was more connected to the founding of the Federation, and not some random bad guys angry at Shran.
Over all, I have to say the series deserved it's fate. The few highs come no where close to cancelling out the sheer drudgery that most of this series was. Lots of potential, but it never came close to living up to it.
Goodbye Hoshi.
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Some people seem to love this arc, but I agree with you.
It's generally agreed by fans that the events of TATV did not happen.
I disagree with that. Despite the lack of quality control, there were some episodes that can stand with any in the franchise (see my sig).
Actually they did plan on it being the series finale. They knew exactly that this was going to be the last episode. Fans were furious then and are furious now. Even the actors like Bakula and Blalock were vocal about their disagreement. Heck, even Jonathan Frakes hates it:
http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-trek/20986/jonathan-frakes-criticises-star-trek-enterprise-ending
I'll never get past the idea that EVERYTHING was recorded so specifically, down to the tiniest detail, that Riker was able to listen in on every conversation. Even the semi private ones.
I would agree that the Mirror episodes were among the best of Trek, but honestly it's been less than two months and most of the series is already a blur. Nothing else stands out.
My mistake, I thought it was a surprise cancellation. That makes it worse.
I agree. It's actually a neat concept that could have been really entertaining - maybe even have them play a mission that we'd already seen as a commentary on the distortions of history - the characters being more heroic, the situation more dire, than we know it actually to have been. Lots of potential.
I'm pretty sure that this was a fictionalized account, that the Enterprise crew were hologram AI's based on the historical psych profiles and actions, just like all the other hologram people we've seen. That's why River was able to interact with them and they were able to respond to his questions. Like playing a sim on your computer.
The baby was likely a consolation prize to the Fandom, knowing what was to come in the next episode.
As someone said at the time it aired, a little adorable half-Vulcan baby isn't gonna scare anyone.breeding a human with a tentacle monster would bring more attention.
Actually that was the question I had in my mind about the baby - she looks positively adorable, how is that going to scare anyone?
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They had started filming the MU episodes when the crew heard about the cancellation, IIRC. That gave TIIC five weeks to get something together.
My thought is that Berman and Braga had this script in the can well ahead of time. Many thought at the time they went ahead with this out of spite for the love Manny Coto received for his efforts during season 4 and wanted to shit all over him, but I truly believe now that the both of them were grossly out of touch with the fandom. Nearly everyone that loved TNG and DS9 were long gone, and most of the ENT fans left were mostly new fans or ones where this Trek spoke to them.
The finale is an insult to all of Trekdom but even more so to us. It shows we as ENT fans didn't matter one iota to them and that the Bs will always be stuck in TNG mode. Good riddance to them both.
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Or B&B genuinely thought they were making a fantastic Enterprise finale, and just couldn't pull it off.
There were actual ENT fans who did like it. I was there, they were real, and I saw them I tell you!
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Braga basically said this i think in the cast reunion extra in that he considers enterprises finale terra prime.
I need help with your acronyms. TIIC = The Idiots In Charge? MUH = Mirror Universe ... something beginning with H.
The last one was a typo. MU is Mirror Universe. The other one is correct.
It's easy for him to say that BS years after the fact.
I believe that like I believed Britney Spears was a virgin when she got her first contract.
The last one was a typo. MU is Mirror Universe. The other one is correct.
It's easy for him to say that BS years after the fact.
I believe that like I believed Britney Spears was a virgin when she got her first contract.
She wasn't?
Well given the other extras I have seen where he is pretty open and critical of himself and enterprise I am prepared to give him the benefit of doubt and think there is some truth there.The last one was a typo. MU is Mirror Universe. The other one is correct.
It's easy for him to say that BS years after the fact.
I believe that like I believed Britney Spears was a virgin when she got her first contract.
If Braga has genuinely come to believe that TATV was a terrible mistake (and why wouldn't he), then I find it believable.
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