CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
- Thread starter Richard Baker
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I wonder if they would have been better holding off until 2022.
Wait--the copyright holds until 2061
http://unpleasantfacts.com/copyright-extension-and-star-trek
Wait--the copyright holds until 2061
http://unpleasantfacts.com/copyright-extension-and-star-trek
Consider a hypothetical where "Prelude" was made as a standalone short. No feature film, studio, or merchandising. Let's make things easier and remove Gary Graham playing Soval from the equation. Under these conditions, would "Prelude" be "fair use" even though it used professional actors like Hertzler, Todd, and Hatch? I think there would be a case that it was.
Obviously, I was not consulted.
That's the way I see it, too. Challenge these guidelines too closely and make the IP holders spend too much money and time and guess what? You won't be happy with what you get.
#ThanksAlec
Are you still including the original Kickstarter campaign in this hypothetical scenario?
When I think about what set Axanar apart from other fan films, I keep coming back to one thing: financial benefit. That was a point in the complaint against AP, and the one that I think will tip the scales in CBS/P's favor.
Although Lord Axahat keeps insisting that there is no profit in Axanar, he has built a studio complex, and has publicly stated that Axanar is his full time job. He used Star Trek IP to raise over a million dollars, build the soundstage/office facility, travel all over the country, pay himself a salary, and film less than five minutes of actual footage. "Fair use" aside, that reeks of financial benefit.
As far as I'm concerned, case closed.
Although Lord Axahat keeps insisting that there is no profit in Axanar, he has built a studio complex, and has publicly stated that Axanar is his full time job. He used Star Trek IP to raise over a million dollars, build the soundstage/office facility, travel all over the country, pay himself a salary, and film less than five minutes of actual footage. "Fair use" aside, that reeks of financial benefit.
As far as I'm concerned, case closed.
Maybe that's the intent...
I disagree. I think a number of fan films (not Axanar) could successfully claim a fair use defense if put to the test. And I think the reason CBS issued the guidelines instead of simply saying "NO MORE FAN FILMS" is they know the latter position would not hold up in court.
Your first sentence is contradicted by the 2nd.
Most fan films would probably fail the fair use defense, as they are trying to recreate Star Trek, but some, like the one you mention, would pass as it is transformative or parody, etc.
Well, if push came to shove, and things got annoying, I wouldn't be surprised if they went that route with the idea being a lawsuit would require deeper pockets than most fan films have. Basically, fear of a lawsuit would prevent testing it.
I'm starting to think that if this does go to trial and Alec does get taken to the cleaners, there will still be surrogates out there in the shadows who will continue his misguided fight. In fact it wouldn't surprise me at all if he, RMB, Mike Bawden and/or some other unknown players were involved in squirreling assets away for just such a scenario.
With Alec & Axanar being very real parasites on the fan film landscape (think of TNG: "Conspiracy" ), the best thing would be for other productions to just lay low and keep quiet. If they're fine with the guidelines, great. If not, their only option at this point is to deal with C/P through private/back channels, well away from the public eye.
The bottom line is Alec needs to be dealt with by the legal system. I don't care whether his bloviating is to keep his acolytes riled up, or whether he's truly stoking the fires - C/P isn't going to settle on terms he'd find acceptable. It's going to take stiff legal and/or monetary sanctions to get him to STFU at some point (I assume there will be at least 6-8 months of bitching and moaning on the part of his supporters after a final judgement/verdict is rendered) and until that happens, there is going to be little to no progress made no matter how much rhetoric there is.
With Alec & Axanar being very real parasites on the fan film landscape (think of TNG: "Conspiracy" ), the best thing would be for other productions to just lay low and keep quiet. If they're fine with the guidelines, great. If not, their only option at this point is to deal with C/P through private/back channels, well away from the public eye.
The bottom line is Alec needs to be dealt with by the legal system. I don't care whether his bloviating is to keep his acolytes riled up, or whether he's truly stoking the fires - C/P isn't going to settle on terms he'd find acceptable. It's going to take stiff legal and/or monetary sanctions to get him to STFU at some point (I assume there will be at least 6-8 months of bitching and moaning on the part of his supporters after a final judgement/verdict is rendered) and until that happens, there is going to be little to no progress made no matter how much rhetoric there is.
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But there's still risk for CBS. There are a number of non-profit and advocacy groups that focus on copyright reform and would gladly finance a lawsuit to establish the limits of "fair use." Axanar is a poor vehicle for such an argument--even the Klingon Language Society amicus brief dealt with a side issue unrelated to fan productions and fair use--but if CBS were to try and crack down across-the-board, the studio could find itself facing an unwelcome judicial precedent.
Like that lone Klingon they found in the jungle years after Khitmoer who thought the war with the Federation was still going on...
But seriously, as I said a few days back, the actual litigation could go on another 2-3 years at a minimum factoring in appeals. I would say reality will not start to set in with the die-hard supporters until we get a Ninth Circuit ruling sometime in 2019.
True. But, who has deeper pockets? Advocacy groups or ALL the Hollywood studios?
Not that, actually, I would want it to go that way. While I'm a strong supporter of strong copyright laws, I do recognize there is need for reform. Just not the reform that Libertarians want or Axanar.
I've gone far "Beyond" thinking this is just about Alec. (unless he happens to be a part of this, which I doubt) Pages back I asked if anyone knew this Jianlin who claimed Disney is next on his list.
So call me a conspiracy writer.
"To influence public opinion, the Communist Party now spends about $10 billion annually on “external propaganda” alone.
Chinese propaganda is far-reaching. In the U.S., the Communist Party is aggressively acquiring major movie industry assets as a way of consolidating the film industry under a red flag. Through the Chinese firm Dalian Wanda—whose founder and chairman, Wang Jianlin, is a former Communist deputy—China has bought AMC Entertainment and Legendary Entertainment for $2.6 billion and $3.5 billion, respectively. Wanda is also interested in purchasing at least a portion of Lionsgate and Paramount Pictures, as well as merging their AMC theaters with Carmike Cinemas for $1.2 billion by the end of the year. The latter would create the country’s largest movie theater chain with 8,380 screens in more than 600 cinemas nationwide."
-Source The Hill
So call me a conspiracy writer.
"To influence public opinion, the Communist Party now spends about $10 billion annually on “external propaganda” alone.
Chinese propaganda is far-reaching. In the U.S., the Communist Party is aggressively acquiring major movie industry assets as a way of consolidating the film industry under a red flag. Through the Chinese firm Dalian Wanda—whose founder and chairman, Wang Jianlin, is a former Communist deputy—China has bought AMC Entertainment and Legendary Entertainment for $2.6 billion and $3.5 billion, respectively. Wanda is also interested in purchasing at least a portion of Lionsgate and Paramount Pictures, as well as merging their AMC theaters with Carmike Cinemas for $1.2 billion by the end of the year. The latter would create the country’s largest movie theater chain with 8,380 screens in more than 600 cinemas nationwide."
-Source The Hill
But we're not just talking about Libertarians. There are a number of academic groups who are interested in these types of issues. And you don't really need deep pockets to fight a case in an appellate court when you have a bunch of law professors ready and willing to take care of the advocacy.
I'm having a hard time buying into what you're arguing. However, if it does happen I will be happy to buy you whatever your beverage of choise is the next time you're in Boise!
I'm still having fun with my conspiracy Script "The Anaxar Conspiracy
(Rough Notes) Can I get a fact check?
Dalian Wanda wants to buy Paramount owned by Viacom (all or part)
Viacom also owns CBS
Paramount owns Star Trek movies
CBS owns Star Trek Series
CBS and Paramount teamed up to sue Alec Peters (Anaxar)
Wang Jianlin rallying support makes claims that Disney is next on his list
Wang Jianlin is the CEO of Dalian Wanda his net worth is around 33 billion US dollars and has $9 billion in free cash.
Winston & Strawn, stepped up to the plate to defend Alec Peters and Ananar,.Pro Bono.
Dalian Wanda is listed by Winston A Strawn as a client on their High Cash Client list. page 6
http://www.winston.com/images/content/8/9/89010.pdf
(Rough Notes) Can I get a fact check?
Dalian Wanda wants to buy Paramount owned by Viacom (all or part)
Viacom also owns CBS
Paramount owns Star Trek movies
CBS owns Star Trek Series
CBS and Paramount teamed up to sue Alec Peters (Anaxar)
Wang Jianlin rallying support makes claims that Disney is next on his list
Wang Jianlin is the CEO of Dalian Wanda his net worth is around 33 billion US dollars and has $9 billion in free cash.
Winston & Strawn, stepped up to the plate to defend Alec Peters and Ananar,.Pro Bono.
Dalian Wanda is listed by Winston A Strawn as a client on their High Cash Client list. page 6
http://www.winston.com/images/content/8/9/89010.pdf
Actually, you should have quoted the entire post as it gives a clearer picture of what this guy thinks/believes.
What I see here is yet another person with "insider information" that they can't share (but are more than willing to tease with), and based on that they claim that CBS can't win and thus should throw in the towel. Unless there are some really shocking facts that haven't come to light, based on all public information I've read I just don't see how CBS can lose. I don't see any way for Axanar / Alec Peters to come out of it with more than a light-blue polo shirt on his back. As it "no way to shut down Ares Studios", he forgets that CBS will very likely be able to tie the funds spent to build it directly to the donation funds raised in the name of Star Trek: Axanar. I do believe (but I'm not a lawyer) that CBS could then ask that all Ares Studios assets be turned over as part of the financial settlement.
"If Axanar loses outright in court [and] is there is a financial judgment against Alec Peters…in which case, I’d expect Alec to just declare bankruptcy" ... Yeah, from what I've heard, that's one part of running a business that he knows how to do well.
But what I do not get is Mr. Lane's assertions that it's imperative for the survival of fan-films in general for CBS to totally lose the case outright. Sure, in that (unlikely) scenario, it turns fan-film world into the wild west where anyone can do anything. But good luck seeing any new movies come out of Hollywood, especially franchise series and sequels, if the big studios have no way to protect their IP / copyrights.
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I always appreciate your insight, @oswriter, but I never got the impression that the guidelines treated with fair use in any way whatsoever. My sense is that they are meant expressly for what would be considered derivative works; the guidelines give those productions legal cover from being sued for copyright. That's all.
A production convinced its particular film passes the four-factor fair use test, and willing to declare as much, could possibly feel free to disregard the guidelines. Of course, if CBS disagreed they might C&D and/or sue. But CBS wouldn't have to. A production that flouts the guidelines isn't guaranteed to get sued; it just increases its exposure in CBS' estimation.
With regard to the guilds, I think this is mostly irrelevant, except in the case of SAG-AFTRA, but the union's New Media agreement covers that. in the case of the professional guilds, like IATSE, fan productions before the guidelines were like any other independent movie. So long as the budget remains below a certain threshold (somewhere around $5 million, I believe), they give their members a pass to work for lower rates.
I don't believe CBS and Paramount developed these guidelines to serve unions; they have a different set of priorities. They saw fan films literally becoming an industry — crowdfunding permitted budgets to burgeon, with more and more participation by professionals, both as cast and crew. Alec Peters' declaration that Axanar was a "fully professional independent production," as arrogant as some of you believe it to be, was true — he even eschewed the "fan film" label. All that worried the studios. Add the studio buildout, producer's salaries, blatant merchandising and other direct financial benefits, and you have a situation that was likely to spiral out of control without some kind of intervention.
Axanar supporters take this situation as proof that the studios were threatened by the quality of their production. In actuality, the supposed quality of an unproduced movie is irrelevant. What is relevant is the creation of a business with planned millions in revenue and aims to diversify beyond fan films to commercial productions — all seeded with money raised on the back of the studios' property, Star Trek. Those are no longer the actions of mere fans. Hence the lawsuit.
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