Was Riker incompetent?

[Paradise City]

Riker's bust up with Jellico was over a disagreement as to whether Picard should be acknowledged as a POW, the alternative being that the Cardassians could do what they liked with Picard as he would otherwise be classified as a terrorist. Jellico didn't want to acknowledge Picard because it would give the Cardassians the moral high grounded and put Starfleet on the defensive in his negotiations. Riker went off the handle.

 

[USS Firefly]

Well in Jellico's eyes the ship wasn't ready so that's all the crew should know right?
And I think too that Riker was too long at the number one of Picard

 

[locutus101]

Oh he was right, and handled the Cardassians very well I think.

But apparently it's not about that. It's about how Riker and crew were "lazy" and "not following orders" and how the ship was "unprepared". Hey, that shift rotation, that's the ticket. That fixed the luxury cruise ship, at least until Picard returned.



But...but:

Yeah, I am not a Jellico's fan but that doesn't mean that I am incapable of seeing things from his perspective. I wouldn't have tolerated insubordination in my first day on the job either.

In fact if Jellico had tolerated Riker waywardness any more than he did it would have made him appear weak and indecisive.

 

[locutus101]

Riker's bust up with Jellico was over a disagreement as to whether Picard should be acknowledged as a POW, the alternative being that the Cardassians could do what they liked with Picard as he would otherwise be classified as a terrorist. Jellico didn't want to acknowledge Picard because it would give the Cardassians the moral high grounded and put Starfleet on the defensive in his negotiations. Riker went off the handle.

It wasn't within Jellico's purview to acknowledge anything about Picard. Riker should have known that.

 

[Paradise City]

It wasn't within Jellico's purview to acknowledge anything about Picard. Riker should have known that.

The implication of the episode is that it is within Jellico's jurisdiction. Because Jellico mulled over it briefly and then rejected that option.

 

[Crazyewok]

It wasn't within Jellico's purview to acknowledge anything about Picard. Riker should have known that.

Plus thats always the danger with black ops that Picard did volunteer for.

If SHTF then chances are your on your own as it could have huge repercussions.

 

[Mojochi]

I'd say as an XO, no. At least not as Picard's XO, & especially in Picard's eyes. Has he made mistakes at times in life? Sure. Does he clearly run a fine ship & crew for Picard? Absolutely

As a captain, on the other hand? Yeah... kind of. Every time Picard goes missing, presumed dead or whathaveyou, dude just falls to pieces, & everybody & their bartender (in one case) have to remind him, he's the damn captain. His greatest glory as a captain was thwarting the Borg, & yet, imho, that was some serious ingenuity on Data's part that saved the day, & Picard's clawing to let an iota of humanity to the surface.

There was many years I disliked Riker, but in hindsight, I now find him kind of pitiable

 

[Ghrakh]

A order should be carried out as soon as its given.

If it cant be then Riker was obliged to deligate it or tell the captain as soon as possible he needs more time, not sit on it until the captain asks again.

A shift rotation change could have at least been worked on and st in motion so when Jellico asks riker could say "its not implemented yet but its being worked on and should be done by (insert time here) sir"

JELLICO
I believe we'll be arriving at the Cardassian border during delta shift. Please inform the delta tactical officer that I want to launch a class five probe just before we drop out of warp.

RIKER
I actually wanted to talk to you about delta a little later, sir. Right now, gamma shift is still slated to be on duty when we arrive and I'll be sure to tell Lieutenant McDowell about the probe.

JELLICO
Is there a problem with delta shift, Wil?

RIKER
Well, there is no delta shift yet, sir. I spoke to the department heads about changing from three to four shifts, and it's going to create some significant personnel problems for us.

JELLICO
So you have not changed the watch rotation.

RIKER
No, sir. I wanted to talk to you about this when we had a chance so that --

JELLICO
You will tell the department heads that as of now, the Enterprise is on a four shift rotation. I don't want to talk about it. Get it done.

Picard almost intercedes at this point, but restrains
himself.

JELLICO
Now that means delta shift will be due to come on duty in two hours. I expect you to have it fully manned and ready when it does. Is that clear?

RIKER
Yes, sir. If you'll excuse me, sir.
__
Damn, Riker's totally incompetent. I hate him. Jellico's a badass. His red uniform matches his light sabre.

 

[locutus101]

The implication of the episode is that it is within Jellico's jurisdiction. Because Jellico mulled over it briefly and then rejected that option.

In that case Jellico was considering the big picture. In his mind there was a lot more at stake than one man's life.

 

[locutus101]

JELLICO
I believe we'll be arriving at the Cardassian border during delta shift. Please inform the delta tactical officer that I want to launch a class five probe just before we drop out of warp.

RIKER
I actually wanted to talk to you about delta a little later, sir. Right now, gamma shift is still slated to be on duty when we arrive and I'll be sure to tell Lieutenant McDowell about the probe.

JELLICO
Is there a problem with delta shift, Wil?

RIKER
Well, there is no delta shift yet, sir. I spoke to the department heads about changing from three to four shifts, and it's going to create some significant personnel problems for us.

JELLICO
So you have not changed the watch rotation.

RIKER
No, sir. I wanted to talk to you about this when we had a chance so that --

JELLICO
You will tell the department heads that as of now, the Enterprise is on a four shift rotation. I don't want to talk about it. Get it done.

Picard almost intercedes at this point, but restrains
himself.

JELLICO
Now that means delta shift will be due to come on duty in two hours. I expect you to have it fully manned and ready when it does. Is that clear?

RIKER
Yes, sir. If you'll excuse me, sir.
__
Damn, Riker's totally incompetent. I hate him. Jellico's a badass. His red uniform matches his light sabre.

Thanks, for proving my point for me. That's very obliging of you.

 

[Ghrakh]

But...but:

First, I am not a Jellico fan.

 

[locutus101]

But...but:

That's called being objective.

 

[Paradise City]

In that case Jellico was considering the big picture. In his mind there was a lot more at stake than one man's life.

Sure, sure, Picard would know the risks too, Jellicos call 100%.

Meanwhile from Riker's POV, he's doing a mini-Admiral Kirk thing here. Staging a little revolt, bustin' up on the brass so as to look out for his bestest pal in the whole galaxy - Captain Picard.

 

[Ghrakh]

That's called being objective.

Well in your bubble I suppose so.

 

[Crazyewok]

But...but:

Again its about respecting the rank not the person.

Doesnt on ones personal views of jellioco or matter if you think the captain is right or wrong.

Only people fit to judge his performance as a starship captain were the Starfleet admirals, not Riker.

 

[locutus101]

Well in your bubble I suppose so.

Not in yours though.

 

[locutus101]

Again its about respecting the rank not the person.

Doesnt on ones personal views of jellioco or matter if you think the captain is right or wrong.

Only people fit to judge his performance as a starship captain were the Starfleet admirals, not Riker.

Riker was lucky that Picard came back from his mission or he may have been facing charges.

 

[Paradise City]

Again its about respecting the rank not the person.

Doesnt on ones personal views of jellioco or matter if you think the captain is right or wrong.

Only people fit to judge his performance as a starship captain were the Starfleet admirals, not Riker.

You do realise Jellico is a fictional character crafted for public entertainment? Thus, he's the property of everyone to discuss and argue over. If Jellico had been a real historical character, like a General, he's be the stuff of historical debate and conversation as well.

 

[Ghrakh]

Again its about respecting the rank not the person.

Doesnt on ones personal views of jellioco or matter if you think the captain is right or wrong.

Only people fit to judge his performance as a starship captain were the Starfleet admirals, not Riker.

The ONLY argument you and others have made is that Riker didn't get the shift rotation changed immediately. The rest is just a bunch of imagined crap.

btw, the situation w/ Picard, you act like Jellico had it all planned out.

 

[Crazyewok]

You do realise Jellico is a fictional character crafted for public entertainment? Thus, he's the property of everyone to discuss and argue over. If Jellico had been a real historical character, like a General, he's be the stuff of historical debate and conversation as well.

Sure but thats another thread. We can critize Jellico comand style.

But the point im making is Riker didnt have that right.