Was Riker incompetent?
- Thread starter Crazyewok
- Start date
I am guessing that Jellico's report on him must not have helped matters along, to put it mildly.
I am inclined towards agreement. In a funny way Riker's character peaked too early -- his crowning moment was clearly Best Of Both Worlds and the remaining four seasons of adventures all feel something of an anticlimax to that -- and I agree bringing Pegasus forward to maybe the fourth or even third season could've done a lot towards explaining his lack of progression.
Ironically, I'm actually one of the few people who isn't wholely dissatisfied with his lack of promotion on some level. Its clear to all of us that the ambitious young guy who was on the fast track to captain in Season One bears no relation to the guy warming the XO chair for no good reason at all by Season 7, but I also think the second season's "The Icarus Factor" offered a reasonable explanation for his change of priorities career-wise..... he made a very clear decision about wanting to stay aboard the Enterprise and learn some more, not that it necessarily gave him an excuse for waiting a further 14 years before moving on. No matter what, his promotion should've happened a lot sooner.
That likely put a huge red flag on his record and rightly so.
I don't understand the way he acted in that episode. From the very beginning he was hostile to his new captain without any reason and the resisted his orders. I would have put him in the brig right there! Just imagine, you're a newly appointed captain on a ship and your first officer (whom you did not select yourself) disobeys your very first order. How would you react?
I will shoot him from the airlock and fly over him 
Riker getting frustrated to a point and there being tension there is perfectly normal. He acted out in the way that he did because the writers wanted to cram everything into two episodes along with all the stuff Picard was being subjected to. The Jellico co-plot had to met a certain pace and so the fall-out was implausibly quick and the shouting match seemed quite forced. It's a strong two parter overall but like Unification, it wobbles here and there from having too much going on.
There was two things that Jellico said that made a lot of sense.
1) He was on an urgent mission and didn't have time for a honeymoon with the crew.
2) Troi should put on a uniform.
1) He was on an urgent mission and didn't have time for a honeymoon with the crew.
2) Troi should put on a uniform.
Well in the first instance, Riker did well during the said games. He always thought outside the box. By the time GEN rolled around, the producers were more concerned about destroying the Ent-D so they could have a new ship worthy of movies. Whilst the race against time to evacuate and then the crash itself are high points in the film, the actual way they got into that situation was poorly thought out. It's not just Riker that comes off badly during those scenes.
The Jellico situation is a tough one. Having to get used to a new Captain, especially one who is a bit more strict, was tough for all of the crew. I think years of working with Picard had the crew feeling more like a family at that point, so any change in command would be tough. I do wonder with Starfleet training, surely Riker and co. should just suck up any problems had and just do what their superior officer ordered? Who knows. Again, it's not just Riker put in the tough situation.
Pegasus is another toughy, but I imagine the young Will Riker was such a loyal officer that he just took what happened on the chin and followed Pressman's orders.
Now if we want to talk about Riker's character development stalling after BOBW finished, I'm all game for that. I like how I'm defending him yet I wouldn't say he's a favourite character.
Admiral Pressman (Pegasus) said that he had friends in high places, Riker's betrayal of him could have been one of the delays in Riker (eventually) being offered a command that he actually wanted.
For years after Pegasus, Riker might have been offered a series of insignificant older ships. Regardless of what's in the novel-verse, the Titan could have been a relatively minor ship that Riker eventually compromised on.
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Perhaps you watched a different version of the episode. Worf was the one being dismissive. In fact Riker had to talk him into participating.
Yes that scene has been heavily criticized but the BOP being "outdated" is irrelevant.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
You don't like Riker, fine, but let's not get carried away...Riker went along perfectly with Jellico's dealings with the Cardassians. But Jellico pretty much wrote Picard off. Riker's just supposed to go "hell yeah, sir!" Right?
Why do Jellico fans hate Picard so much?
First, I am not a Jellico fan.
Second, I don't hate Picard. Where did you get this idea?
Both Jellico and Picard are cool cats, different breeds perhaps but cool cats for all of that. It's just hilarious watching Jellico appear with his riding crop and start thrashing members of Picard's "family" for being layabouts. Riker's dazed reaction before he eventually loses the rag is also very entertaining. A good all-round horse whippin' is just what the doctor ordered for that 'orrible lot, lol.
I thought him and kurn were a breath of fresh air. Kurn particularly because he hated Wesley.
Yes, instead of Kurn getting his memory wiped in DS9, he should got together with Jellico and set a bad-ass command school. That would've been one heck of a pairing. In fact, it would be amusing to see Kurn as XO on the exchange program whilst Jellico took over.
Riker's problems are in the area of temperament, not competence.
In the case of Rascals, that was pretty incompetent, but in cases of really bad writing I tend not to count it against the character in general. They set the self destruct mechanism before they risk surrendering the ship in most cases, then in this case they surrender the entire ship because one Ferengi gets a phaser on one person.
In the case of Rascals, that was pretty incompetent, but in cases of really bad writing I tend not to count it against the character in general. They set the self destruct mechanism before they risk surrendering the ship in most cases, then in this case they surrender the entire ship because one Ferengi gets a phaser on one person.
If the crew were too comfortable, lazy, or whatever then that reflects on Picard. Just logical, huh? Out with the bad Captain, in with Captain "Badass". Crew morale is irrelevant.
Riker and crew dealt with the Borg and now suddenly they're not prepared to deal with Cardassians? Jellico just came in and upended the ship, such as that whole shift rotation thing. Was this shown to have any tactical advantage over how it was before?
Wesley hate is sooooo last week. I believe next week a revisit to Pulaski hate is scheduled so you'll have to wait for the next cycle.
Jellico had an urgent, difficult mission, he needed the crew to toughen up and obey his orders without delay. That's the detail that Riker wasn't smart enough to get immediately. Call it incompetence, call it indiscipline, call whatever you want but it's not good. There are times for discussion and there are times for obeying orders efficiently. Jellico has been hired By the Admiral Nechayev because of his knowledge of the Cardassians not because of his ability to cuddle the crew.
