Was Troy a psychotherapist too?

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

But part of the original concept (Roddenberry's) is that Humans are more "evolved," this is why they don't have inter-personal conflicts.

Why do near perfect people need a shrink?

Because the higher-ups keep telling them they don't?

 

[locutus101]

McCoy had a strong distaste. Barclay was suffering from a pathological phobia.

It shouldn't be too hard for a smart man like Barclay to pass a pathological phobia as a strong distaste. Remember that he did take the transporter eventually, so that wasn't a real phobia after all. You can't just overcome a phobia because people shame you to it. It takes months and enormous effort and more often than not it's never resolved.

 

[Skipper]

But part of the original concept (Roddenberry's) is that Humans are more "evolved," this is why they don't have inter-personal conflicts.

Why do near perfect people need a shrink?

Even when Roddenberry had the full control of TNG, there were people with some major issue (like Tasha Yar, Admiral Mark Jameson or the Doctor Ira Graves)

It shouldn't be too hard for a smart man like Barclay to pass a pathological phobia as a strong distaste. Remember that he did take the transporter eventually, so that wasn't a real phobia after all. You can't just overcome a phobia because people shame you to it. It takes months and enormous effort and more often than not it's never resolved.

He literally fled from the transporter room after after Worf, Riker and Crusher beamed over one by one to the Yosemite (Realm of Fear). Probably it wasn't a real phobia, but anyway it was something that prevented him from performing his regular duties.

 

[locutus101]

Even when Roddenberry had the full control of TNG, there were people with some major issue (like Tasha Yar or the Admiral Mark Jameson)


He literally fled from the transporter room after after Worf, Riker and Crusher beamed over one by one to the Yosemite (Realm of Fear). Probably it wasn't a real phobia, but anyway it was something that prevented him from performing his regular duties.

Actually, in that episode it had allowed him to solve an enigma that had baffled all the other members of the crew. So maybe they were right to give him a chance after all.

 

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

But part of the original concept (Roddenberry's) is that Humans are more "evolved," this is why they don't have inter-personal conflicts.

Why do near perfect people need a shrink?

Because human nature being what it is, doesn't lend itself to be "evolved" or "perfect" in the Roddenberry-esque sense. Thus they need an enforcer, but they call it a "counsellor" instead. In other ideologies that also believed man could be perfected (with disastrous results I might add) they had commissars and informants to take care of that.

Which brings me to Barclay, one of my favourite characters on TNG just because he felt like a real human being, not a neutered stoic stiff. Of course he had problems with the resident political officer.

 

[Paradise City]

It shouldn't be too hard for a smart man like Barclay to pass a pathological phobia as a strong distaste. Remember that he did take the transporter eventually, so that wasn't a real phobia after all. You can't just overcome a phobia because people shame you to it. It takes months and enormous effort and more often than not it's never resolved.

I think we are supposed to understand it as a phobia in more or less the conventional sense. That he tackles and triumphs over it by the end of the episode is just TNG making sure everything is pleasantly tidied up before the credits roll. A bit like another episode featuring Barclay - Genesis - where everybody goes through a brutal and horrible disfigurement reducing everyone to beasts but by the end of the episode, instead of months of traumatic physical and psychological rehabilitation, everyone is exchanging wisecracks and having a great ole chuckle about it all.

 

[at Quark's]

Instead of months of traumatic physical and psychological rehabilitation, everyone is exchanging wisecracks and having a great ole chuckle about it all.

Happens in many eps. Always figured that was part of humanity being 'more evolved': to be able to shrug off potentially life-wrecking events so casually and be in perfect (psychological) condition again next week

This discussion left me wondering though: what was the first time we actually see Deanna do sessions or therapy-like work with clients (instead of just advising the senior staff) ?

 

[locutus101]

I think we are supposed to understand it as a phobia in more or less the conventional sense. That he tackles and triumphs over it by the end of the episode is just TNG making sure everything is pleasantly tidied up before the credits roll. A bit like another episode featuring Barclay - Genesis - where everybody goes through a brutal and horrible disfigurement reducing everyone to beasts but by the end of the episode, instead of months of traumatic physical and psychological rehabilitation, everyone is exchanging wisecracks and having a great ole chuckle about it all.

Medical advances are not the same for everyone as Beverly is completely healed of what should have been a horrible disfigurement by the end of the episode while the Cardassian in "The Darkness And The Light" didn't have that chance not even years after the event that wounded him took place.

 

[2takesfrakes]

What I find so interesting about this thread is that the only reason why Deanna Troi is so trusted in her position is because she's one of Our Heroes. Were we to meet her on another ship, having all of that power, I wonder what our perceptions and expectations of what should happen to her would be. As it is, we trust her, implicitly, because Picard's crew does ... and because she's beautiful & sweet.

As a matter of fact, when her annoying mother comes over, those are the times when Deanna's trustworthiness are put on display. Because, if you think you don't trust her, as it is, just imagine her with her whacked-out mum's personality peccadillos. Now, because of this direct observation of how they contrast, we are assured of Deanna's sweetness and vulnerability: she CAN and SHOULD BE trusted!

Whereas, if we look at her success rate in helping patients cope, it's clear she's incompetent. Barclay never progresses. Picard never lets go of his Borg hate. Worf & Alexander's relationship continued heading South, etc. ... but all TNG's worried about is that we simply LIKE Deanna Troi and want to be in her clique.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If Counselling was therapy, then it was medical, therefore Dee answered to and reported to Bev, the CMO... But Dee didn't, so she can't have been?

I'm pretty sure that Dee wasn't a lawyer, but what about a Guidance Counsellor?

 

[2takesfrakes]

Look at us all ... spinning theories on what Troi's job actually was on the ship! Picard's being a Frenchman surely factored in there, as to why she got to sit by him on the bridge, every day, doing nothing. Because as soon as Jellico came onboard, with his American sensibilities, he was all like, " ... what the shit with this woman? How'd she get to think she was so special?" And he started steering her back towards how things work, on a starship ...

 

[locutus101]

If Counselling was therapy, then it was medical, therefore Dee answered to and reported to Bev, the CMO... But Dee didn't, so she can't have been?

I'm pretty sure that Dee wasn't a lawyer, but what about a Guidance Counsellor?

Psychiatrists don't answer to CMOs. These are two distinct disciplines with very little in common.

 

[at Quark's]

What I find so interesting about this thread is that the only reason why Deanna Troi is so trusted in her position is because she's one of Our Heroes. Were we to meet her on another ship, having all of that power, I wonder what our perceptions and expectations of what should happen to her would be. As it is, we trust her, implicitly, because Picard's crew does ... and because she's beautiful & sweet.
.

I think I would trust her because, as you say, Our Heroes (and the entire crew) trust her. I'm not sure I'd like her at all, though.

 

[Skipper]

This discussion left me wondering though: what was the first time we actually see Deanna do sessions or therapy-like work with clients (instead of just advising the senior staff) ?

Good question. I just remember Janet Brooks in The Loss. Anyone else before?

 

[2takesfrakes]

I think I would trust her because, as you say, Our Heroes (and the entire crew) trust her. I'm not sure I'd like her at all, though.

I'm just curious ... why don't you feel compelled to like her?

 

[Skipper]

When I was searching about Troi, I find this interesting article:

Counselor Troi is not Scalable

For those not familiar with Counselor Troi, she was the ship’s counselor on the starship Enterprise on the TV show “Star Trek: The Next Generation”. She was telepathic, she wore tight purple jump-suits and dresses during the first years of the show instead of the uniforms that the rest of the crew wore, and she basically did talk therapy — crew members came to her to explain their inner struggles and she asked them questions. When the show launched in the early nineties, she typified the popular view of therapy at the time: you sat and talked to a nice person that tried to read your mind while helping you uncover insights that solved all of your problems.

Counselor Troi’s role also reflected the popular view of mental illness at the time: other people had them. Despite the prescient innovations the Star Trek universe imagined for physical healthcare — like tricorders and replicators — its vision for the future of mental healthcare was basically Sigmund Freud in a low-cut leotard (I apologize if I just destroyed anybody’s adolescent Deanna Troi fantasies).

Since the nineties, I’d say there’s a greater awareness that mental illnesses are more common than most people assumed, and you can’t just talk about your feelings and make these illnesses go away. Now consumers expect their therapist to practice an evidence-based form of therapy like CBT, DBT, ACT, etc. There are methodologies, healthy actions that patients can take, and recovery is becoming a clearer path for consumers and providers. But there’s still the expectation that you have to learn those methodologies and walk that path of recovery with a therapist, with your own version of Counselor Troi. And this brings us to the Counselor Troi Problem:

Counselor Troi is not scalable.

If everybody must work with Counsellor Troi to improve and maintain their mental health, the ship is going to fall apart in a mess of mental illnesses. There are not enough Counselor Trois on the Starship Enterprise to meet the mental health needs of the crew.

 

[at Quark's]

I'm just curious ... why don't you feel compelled to like her?

(Disregarding the 'compelled' part), I'm not sure exactly why. I could perhaps state reasons like 'too often stating the obvious', 'talking too much about feelings and her empathic gift' (even though that's her job), 'rarely given anything interesting to do' (though that wouldn't necessarily be the character's fault), and so on.

Frankly, these aren't very solid reasons, so I suppose in essence, she just isn't my type.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Understood & Confirmed! Were she not Riker's bit of stuff, I'd probably be indifferent about her, except for the fact that she did help further delineate TNG from TOS, which I do appreciate about her. In a very real way, she helped set the new series apart and I'm thankful, for that.

 

[Skipper]

Well, according to this article the first time that Troi acted like some sort of therapist was in The Neutral Zone. The first time that we see a therapy session was in The Loss.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Psychiatrists don't answer to CMOs. These are two distinct disciplines with very little in common.

The Chief medical Officer is in charge of all the Medical Officers.

Are you saying that mental health is not health related?



Google found this about the real world.

CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER OPPORTUNITY



PURPOSE: The Chief Medical Officer (CMO) has oversight of all licensed clinical services provided throughout the organization and is responsible for effective and efficient leadership of provider performance. This position is accountable to the CEO and Board of Trustees for developing and implementing CHCS medical services strategies and, in conjunction with divisional VPs, establishing and implementing strategies and performance standards, monitoring and applying continuous improvement processes to achieve expected high quality medical outcomes while appropriately managing compliance and risk. This position also provides high level oversight for all waivers, grants and collaborative efforts involving more than one division and creates and maintains relationships with other academic and community based organizations on a local, state and national level.


ACCOUNTABILITIES & ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS

Provides system-wide medical services planning, effective direction to and leadership of all medical provider and nursing resources, effective financial management, development of medical services

strategy and goals, accurate and timely reporting of goals and performance to CEO and Board of

Trustees; ensures medical practice risk is effectively managed



Directs individual and center-wide provider selection, placement and professional development;

monitors, mentors and appropriately manages provider performance



Provides appropriate medical guidance to nursing services; coordinates psychiatric and physician

Residency Program with educational institutions; designs and oversees telehealth strategy &

implementation



Maintains leadership role in local, state and national organizations to further the goals to improve

individual and population outcomes, increase patient satisfaction with care and reduce cost of care

What I found hilarious from TNG The Loss is when Bev says "Maybe you should see a therapist? There's plenty of therapists on board. I can suggest a good one."

If Troi was in mental health, those therapists would be her peers, or rivals, and if she was in charge of mental health (which is unlikely) then those "Doctors" would report to her as minions.