Religion and Star Trek

[Jedi_Master]

In Trek - "gods" almost always are beings of pure energy dwelling on a higher "plane" of existence than humans and the physical realm. The basic notion is that humans will continue to evolve and eventually become "gods" in their own right. Until then, they will have to deal with energy beings with varying degrees of success.

 

[locutus101]

They moved to a point where they could, literally, rewrite the fabric of the universe. They evolved. Much like the Organians from "Errand of Mercy".

But when Riker became a Q for a time he was no different from the ordinary IQ Riker. His "gifts" to his friend were pretty stupid for the most part, (except for Geordi getting his eyes, I think that Geordi's refusal of the gift was very bizarre considering that for the years to come he'd use technology to get eyes, closer and closer to human ones, until a time when he got eyes identical to normal ones, but that's far from being the only demented thing on the show)

That part with geordi really baffled me. I mean, if I am blind and someone gives me my sight back, I promise that I won't use it to look the gift horse in the mouth.

The point is that Q riker didn't have an IQ much higher than ordinary Riker.

 

[JeffinOakland]

In Trek - "gods" almost always are beings of pure energy dwelling on a higher "plane" of existence than humans and the physical realm. The basic notion is that humans will continue to evolve and eventually become "gods" in their own right. Until then, they will have to deal with energy beings with varying degrees of success.

There are no gods in ST. Some of the species in ST possess abilities acquired via evolution that beings not as evolved may perceive as godlike. Ultimately, highly evolved species are still "just" species.

 

[BillJ]

The point is that Q riker didn't have an IQ much higher than ordinary Riker.

They probably didn't give it all to Riker at once. He was a trainee. Look at what happened to poor Gary Mitchell when he became a "God" overnight.

 

[BillJ]

There are no gods in ST. Some of the species in ST possess abilities acquired via evolution that beings not as evolved may perceive as godlike. Ultimately, highly evolved species are still "just" species.

I think that is why he put "gods" in quotation marks.

 

[JeffinOakland]

I think that is why he put "gods" in quotation marks.

probably...I prefer "highly evolved"

 

[locutus101]

They probably didn't give it all to Riker at once. He was a trainee. Look at what happened to poor Gary Mitchell when he became a "God" overnight.

But Gary Mitchel was visibly cleverer. For example he could read and assimilate a book in about ten seconds. That definitely demands brains.

 

[BillJ]

But Gary Mitchel was visibly cleverer. For example he could read and assimilate a book in about ten seconds. That definitely demands brains.

Yet it still overwhelmed him. What's your point? The Q aren't gods, they are a species that evolved to a higher plane of existence, much like the Organians I pointed to upthread.

 

[locutus101]

probably...I prefer "highly evolved"

A meaningless qualification, what do you call evolved? Did you know that our biological evolution practically stopped since we're able to cure most diseases? Evolution rests largely on natural selection. But we humans are no longer subject to natural selection. In fact in time of war the people most likely to be killed are the fittest, they'll be sent to the front line to die there while the weak and disabled will stay at home... and survive.
So much for "evolution".

 

[JeffinOakland]

A meaningless qualification, what do you call evolved? Did you know that our biological evolution practically stopped since we're able to cure most diseases? Evolution rests largely on natural selection. But we humans are no longer subject to natural selection. In fact in time of war the people most likely to be killed are the fittest, they'll be sent to the front line to die there while the weak and disabled will stay at home... and survive.
So much for "evolution".

Actually, it is generally understood in the scientific community that humans are still evolving. Again, you don't demonstrate an understanding of what evolutionary biology actually is. First of all, you need to clearly demonstrate you understand the basics of evolutionary biology.

 

[locutus101]

Yet it still overwhelmed him. What's your point? The Q aren't gods, they are a species that evolved to a higher plane of existence, much like the Organians I pointed to upthread.

I don't think it overwhelmed him. That's your interpretation. What seems obvious to me that he was about to take over the universe and he probably would have without Kirk's and his quasi-goddess girlfriend's intervention. That's not my idea of being "overwhelmed".

 

[Jedi_Master]

I think that is why he put "gods" in quotation marks.

Yep.

In the Trek universe, corporeal beings eventually evolve into non-corporeal beings. The species that "got there first" have some distinct advantages. Bab5 had a similar idea built into its mythos.

 

[locutus101]

Actually, it is generally understood in the scientific community that humans are still evolving. Again, you don't demonstrate an understanding of what evolutionary biology actually is. First of all, you need to clearly demonstrate you understand the basics of evolutionary biology.

I could return the compliment as you don't seem to know the first thing about evolution as it depends solely on selection.

Unless there is some form of eugenism going on that nobody knows about. There can't be any evolution in humankind. Stop pretending that you know anything about the subject and try to read a couple of books written by actual scientists.

 

[BillJ]

I don't think it overwhelmed him. That's your interpretation. What seems obvious to me that he was about to take over the universe and he probably would have without Kirk's and his quasi-goddess girlfriend's intervention. That's not my idea of being "overwhelmed".

It's not "my interpretation". While on Delta Vega, once in the holding facility and once during the fight, his powers momentarily falter and there's sorrow in his eyes and a pleading "Jim". The power did something to him. Something he couldn't control.

Been watching this stuff for way too long...

 

[locutus101]

It's not "my interpretation". While on Delta Vega, once in the holding facility and once during the fight, his powers momentarily falter and there's sorrow in his eyes and a pleading "Jim". The power did something to him. Something he couldn't control.

Been watching this stuff for way too long...

That's still your interpretation as I don't see it that way and I am not alone.

 

[JeffinOakland]

I could return the compliment as you don't seem to know the first thing about evolution as it depends solely on selection.

Unless there is some form of eugenism going on that nobody knows about. There can't be any evolution in humankind. Stop pretending that you know anything about the subject and try to read a couple of books written by actual scientists.

You are factually wrong. Evolution does not depend solely on natural selection. Natural selection is one aspect of evolution.

 

[locutus101]

You are factually wrong. Evolution does not depend solely on natural selection. Natural selection is one aspect of evolution.

You don't know what you're talking about.

You're confusing evolution with black magic or voodoo.

The second principle of thermodynamics says that we actually devolve and only selection can counteract this phenomenon. Have you even heard of thermodynamics?

 

[BillJ]

That's still your interpretation as I don't see it that way and I am not alone.

So you believe that Gary Mitchell was the type of person that would threaten to squash his shipmates like gnats and would choke to death a fellow officer for shits and giggles?

 

[JeffinOakland]

You don't know what you're talking about.

You're confusing evolution with black magic or voodoo.

That makes no sense.

 

[locutus101]

That makes no sense.

IOW, you don't understand it. I can't say I am surprised.