"Purity"?
I would like JJ Abrams to direct Star Trek 4.
- Thread starter Dales
- Start date
This should be sufficient enough explanation."Purity"?
Doesn't really clarify anything.
You weren't being ironic?
Weird, because what you described sounds more like Abrams style. Erratic gimmicky camerawork trying to heighten things up, whereas Lin played a lot more smoothly enough that was able to follow what the hell was going on this time. The differences between the Kelvin sequence and Enterprise's destruction really highlight why I responded more to the latter whereas I found the former very distracting to the point of taking me out of the film.
Where you refer to the plot being weak, I find its strength in its simplicity refreshing (especially after the more convoluted, not complex, first two films). Because of that, we're allowed to see the characters breathe in a way the prior films didn't allow. For example, Abrams had a bad tendency to add unnecessary comic elements in scenes that had discussions between characters. For example, the moment in STID with Kirk and Spock discussing the ethics of their mission constantly being interrupted by Bones examining Kirk "Bones, get that off my face". It's stuff like that that comes off (to me at least) as Abrams not trusting in audiences listening to what the characters have to say, so he adds some comedy to lighten it up just to see what sticks. I found it very distracting and taking away from what the film is trying to say of the themes it wanted to tackle. That's also why we got shenanigans like Nutty Professor hands and that we're somehow supposed to remember what Uhura is explaining when she's taking off her clothes as Kirk gawks at her. Having a conversation with Khan, then "Bones, what are you doing with that tribble?" then bounce back to the conversation with Khan like nothing happened. The worst is tone deaf moments like Scotty's "I like this ship".
You say Kirk is "suddenly jaded", even though the Captain's log points out the passage of time acknowledging how his time in space has worn him down (along with CGI beasts). I actually find this scenario with Kirk believable because of what I've seen in the first two films. I never actually believed that the Kirk we see in those films was all that interested in Starfleet and what it was about. As he points out, he joined on a dare, and we actually see that reflected in the first film, remarking to Pike "I'll finish it in three" as if he's prepping for a beer pong. So it's no surprise to me that this character who lived by thrills would become disillusioned over time and question if it was something he truly aspired beyond exceeding the expectations laid by how his father lived and died. His drive to reunite the crew and his encounter with Krall is what reinvigorates him to continue the serving in Starfleet. He now not only truly understands what Starfleet is and should be about but WHY his father was in it in the first place. He's now in it for his own reasons instead of following the footsteps of his father.
This whole growth and development throughout the film plays much more believable than the way STID ends with one year later and Kirk's speech basically being "oh hey, I get it now, we're supposed to be a Star Trek film, let's not forget about that again!" I don't care much for the 2009 film, but the more I think of it, BEYOND serves as a better direct sequel to that film than STID did. May not be a coincidence that the second film seems to be entirely ignored by BEYOND. Likely wasn't the intention, but it plays off that way.
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personally i wouldn't mind seeing either one of them return.
As far as I'm concerned Lin is the go to guy for Trek movies. Every shot of the Enterprise in the first thirty minutes were the most impressive and gorgeous we've ever had. Period. I saw it in 3D on an IMAX screen and holy shit! Just..fucking..amazing. Pretty much every shot of the ship was done in a new and innovative way, and frankly the new show better pay attention to this, because if all they're going to do is the same stale as shit flyby's, then I'm not interested.
If you haven't seen it in 3d on an IMAX screen...do it. I saw it one day after seeing it on a regular screen and it was night and day. I've waited since 1979 to see the Enterprise look like the giant spaceship that it's supposed to be, and Justin Lin finally delivered on that.
If you haven't seen it in 3d on an IMAX screen...do it. I saw it one day after seeing it on a regular screen and it was night and day. I've waited since 1979 to see the Enterprise look like the giant spaceship that it's supposed to be, and Justin Lin finally delivered on that.
That's weird. One of the best moments in ST09 is also apparently "the worst".
Not weird, just a difference in opinion. I thought Scotty was a largely obnoxious comic relief in the first film. I give STID points for trying to balance his character with a little more gravitas, and of course BEYOND for continuing that.
I'd be happy if Justin Lin or JJ Abrams returned for ST4. Or if they got someone else. My mind is open.
I have to disagree on comparing the camerawork - Into darkness had Khan, Klingons and Starfleet in a fight together and it was all relatively easy to make out what was going on, this movie made a shootout down a corridor jumpy and hard to see. The destruction of the ship was pretty great though, but the warp fight in Into Darkness and that ship smashing into earth kind of dwarfs that to me.
That's the thing though, how does a standard bad guy attack and rescue mission reinvigorate him? We've seen what his adventures must have been like if they were anything close to the TOS five year mission. So he's jaded with all the crazy adventures we saw and exploring new worlds, but a simple rescue gets him happy about it again... I don't think it connects well.
That's the thing though, how does a standard bad guy attack and rescue mission reinvigorate him? We've seen what his adventures must have been like if they were anything close to the TOS five year mission. So he's jaded with all the crazy adventures we saw and exploring new worlds, but a simple rescue gets him happy about it again... I don't think it connects well.
I think Paramount may have went too far the other way with Beyond. There were no real surprises.
This is perhaps my big issue with the movie: the themes we've been told were in the movie weren't really on the screen. Supposedly the big theme is Unity. But in order to demonstrate that, contrary to what Krall says, unity is a strength, you have to show the corresponding truth, that disunity is a weakness.
Kirk and Spock are both considering leaving Enterprise, but that doesn't weaken them, and is not the reason Krall's trap succeeds.
When the crew is split up on the planet, that's the perfect opportunity to show how difficult things become when separated from their crewmates. The movie as it is doesn't really do this. I've been fantasising about little things they could have done to dramatise the theme of unity, and I hope you'll indulge me for a moment:
The nearest thing we see to this theme enacted is Spock and Bones, with Bones helping Spock medically and helping him to walk. But it feels too easy. Spock never really looks critically ill, and Bones seems fairly lackadaisical about the whole thing.
It would have been better to show Spock constantly in pain, pale and bleeding, and McCoy working like a demon to keep him alive, pulling every medical trick out of the book. Later, they have this exchange:
SPOCK: Without you, Doctor, I would certainly be dead.
McCOY: Yeah, well ... without you, I'd probably be talking to myself.
McCOY: Yeah, well ... without you, I'd probably be talking to myself.
Kirk, apparently not much bothered by losing his ship and his crew, should angst a bit more, and again this should be related to the theme of unity:
KIRK: A ship is more than a machine - it's people. And what can I do without my people?
CHEKOV: You can get them back.
CHEKOV: You can get them back.
And Scotty should be in real danger before Jaylah shows up. He's not a fighter, and should be in fear for his life before his future ally rescues him.
Finally, there's a real missed opportunity in the scene at the party at the end. Lin's composition echoes the elevator scene from early in the film, when Kirk and Spock were thinking of calling it a day. Is there a callback to this conversation? No, just some minor pleasantries. But what if they had had this exchange:
SPOCK: We make a good team, do we not?
KIRK: [smiles] I believe we do.
KIRK: [smiles] I believe we do.
That would have underlined the theme of unity, clarified why they were staying with Enterprise, AND been a great character moment.
I'm very sad that these opportunities were squandered.
You quoted a post I made nearly four years ago which I don't even remember making. Although since I talk about "my social circles" that's pretty much a red flag the post was a joke.
Which I guess is the point I was making anyway. My posts about Star Trek's purity are usually jokes or as you put it "ironic."
We all know that's serious business.
No. As much as I enjoyed and defend the first movie, and to some extent the second, it's clear that having someone at the helm who is invested in the Trek legacy pays off. Lin did a great job.
I think Abrams is good at what he does. It's just what he does isn't very ground-breaking. I would hate to see another mess like STID put out.
Thanks for clarifying.
Lin did a good job but I prefer JJ over Lin as a director in more than one aspect. I feel like if JJ had the script of stb he'd probably make a better movie. JJ wouldn't delete scenes like the one where Sulu talks about his family and bonds with Uhura. He also would care to give to Uhura more a perspective and voice about what happened between her and Spock instead of her being only a topic of discussion in the scenes between dudes.
Lin is good with big casts and SOME action scenes but JJ is a storyteller in ways Lin isn't and it's those aspects I honestly care more about.
Would be amazing if there was a director who had their qualities all combined in one person but it probably is a mission impossible to find that.
Lin is good with big casts and SOME action scenes but JJ is a storyteller in ways Lin isn't and it's those aspects I honestly care more about.
Would be amazing if there was a director who had their qualities all combined in one person but it probably is a mission impossible to find that.
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Perhaps get a director in that can do more than action, things blowing up and other explosions...
As much as I really loved Star Trek, and really liked Into Darkness, Beyond is my favorite of the Kelvin timeline movies. I'd need to see it two or three times more, but everything just clicked. Pacing, directing of actors, actionscenes, cinematogrophy. It was all just spot on to me. So no, I don't want JJ back.
Besides, I think he himself has already stated he doesn't want to direct big franchise movies anymore.
Besides, I think he himself has already stated he doesn't want to direct big franchise movies anymore.
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