Was there really a backlash over Sulu? Except for here where they can't change the font without a few knuckleheads throwing a hissyfit. I doubt anyone outside small fan groups and George Takei's house even cared.
'Star Trek: Discovery' will be the worst series.
- Thread starter AdmiralBruno
- Start date
- Status
Hold on a second... I make a long post about gender representation in Trek. And that in past Trek shows the ratio has been 3:1 favoring men. And I point out that continuing that would be silly.
And your reply was:
And then you're surprised I found that a little tedious?
I'm not being combative, I was honestly stunned to read your reply that didn't address what I said at all.
The "That isn't my fault" part was clearly passive-aggressive and you think it's me who's combative? That's... funny. I'm sorry, but you're projecting.
And pointing out that seventy-seven percent of the US is white? You just proved my point. White men make up less than 50% of the US. So for a realistic representation they should also be less than 50% of the main cast.
All I'm asking for is a relatively realistic representation. I'm completely aware of the fact that white people will be a reasonably big part of the main cast. Nothing wrong with that. I'm white, too.
Last edited:
Roddenberry allegedly wanted a 50/50 crew when it came to gender, the studio rejected it because they thought it implied they would all have sex. Maybe they could actually try that, especially since its far more realistic.
Which is still a huge block of prospective customers. Demographics play a huge role in how American entertainment companies make decisions.
Exactly. And?
I never said it makes sense to exclude white men. I just think representation should be realistic. I'm not saying I want white men to be underrepresented. I just want them to be a little less overrepresented than they were in the last five shows.
Going for a 1:1 male/female ratio would be a first step.
You're acting like I don't want any white men in Trek and you're telling me that would alienate white male customers. It's just... I'm not sure why you feel the need to point this out considering I never said anything that could make you think that. I'm perfectly fine with white men in Star Trek.
It feels a little absurd that I have to point this out. I didn't ever claim the opposite.
Last edited:
A 3:1 male to female ratio is about right.
Find me one military in the world where women make up anywhere NEAR 50%. Men gravitate more towards this. It's just in our nature to take more risks, and to be more adventurous. Do some women? DUH, but less than men. Even with equal opportunity men are more likely to do this....
Wanting to make Star Trek PC does not mean you're making it realistic.
FYI- Geordi was born in Africa in ST for example. It's just the way the crew is balanced. Maybe the wars that took place destroyed some populations more than others. Maybe in the future western cultures are more prominent in terms of expanding in to space and other planets. Who knows. There is some diversity. They just try to keep it balanced.
Also, ST still skews more male; even the reboot movies.
Find me one military in the world where women make up anywhere NEAR 50%. Men gravitate more towards this. It's just in our nature to take more risks, and to be more adventurous. Do some women? DUH, but less than men. Even with equal opportunity men are more likely to do this....
Wanting to make Star Trek PC does not mean you're making it realistic.
FYI- Geordi was born in Africa in ST for example. It's just the way the crew is balanced. Maybe the wars that took place destroyed some populations more than others. Maybe in the future western cultures are more prominent in terms of expanding in to space and other planets. Who knows. There is some diversity. They just try to keep it balanced.
Also, ST still skews more male; even the reboot movies.
As has been pointed out several times:
Starfleet is not the military. Science and diplomacy play a huge role for example and there's no reason to believe any of these fields would be dominated by men in the future. In my country women actually count for more than 50% of uni students these days.
Also: The future is not the present.
I never said or implied any such thing. I'm sorry if that is how you see my posts.
I just said I wouldn't be surprised if Discovery is dominated by straight white men.
They fight the wars, they are the military.
Nope. About 50:50 male-to-female is what to expect in the future, as well as proportional representation in terms of race, ethnicity, gender, and religion, too, for that matter.
It's usually idiotic and backwards a lot of the time. They'll cancel shows because it isn't appealing to the right demographics despite getting good ratings.
But that's when shows were mainly things to air between commercials. With streaming media you can just create a show for an audience and rake in the money which is working well for Netflix and Hulu which both air shows that wouldn't last a few episodes on broadcast television.
Oki. I was just surprised, is all.
They push buttons on a console when they fight. I don't think the advantage men have in upper body strength really matters a whole lot when pushing buttons or even firing a hand phaser.
Plus there are tons of jobs on a starship that have absolutely nothing to do with fighting.
I suppose I wouldn't find it weird to see men be the majority of Space Marines fighting nasty alien bugs. But that's not what Star Trek is. Given what crews of Starships in Star Trek actually do, I'd say there's zero reason to not expect a 1:1 ratio.
I think it's important to be gender and racially blind while cast, and keeping the characters that way as well. I really do not want actors chosen simply for the gender-diversity they bring. I want workers and really strong performers.
"We have 3 female actors who, while good performers, don't fit the role, and we have 3 male actors, two of which fit the role perfectly, but if we cast one of the men, that'll cut into our diversity quota."
^ Avoid that at all costs.That's all i'm saying.
Starfleet is the military of the Federation. Science and diplomacy play a huge role in the military, too.
Based on what, exactly?
"We have 3 female actors who, while good performers, don't fit the role, and we have 3 male actors, two of which fit the role perfectly, but if we cast one of the men, that'll cut into our diversity quota."
^ Avoid that at all costs.That's all i'm saying.
Starfleet is the military of the Federation. Science and diplomacy play a huge role in the military, too.
Based on what, exactly?
They push buttons on a console when they fight. I don't think the advantage men have in upper body strength really matters a whole lot when pushing buttons.
Ask the folks at AR-558 about pushing buttons.
I was talking about Starfleet being the military. I have no issues with women in combat.
Like I said: Women can push buttons and fire phasers, too.
Starfleet officers don't seem to get chosen on the basis of their ability in hand-to-hand combat.
And I always had the feeling that the vast majority of jobs on the Enterprise weren't combat-related anyway so even if we believe that even in the future men will be more likely to pick combat roles I don't see the relevance that has for a Star Trek spaceship.
Maybe we'll see women in all command positions and men die as fighting red-shirts?
They push buttons on a console when they fight. I don't think the advantage men have in upper body strength really matters a whole lot when pushing buttons or even firing a hand phaser.
Sorry, Emi, I couldn't help it!
I suppose I could see Starfleet's security officers to be predominantly male. They probably have to do some hand-to-hand combat at times so upper body strength might matter and affect average applicant numbers.
All other jobs? I mean... doctor? Engineer? Ops? Science? Helm? Captain? XO?
I don't really see any advantage for either gender there. So yeah, that's like 1 role out of a cast of how many? Not really something that should affect the overall ratio all that much.
[In before people joke about Deanna's success rate when flying the Enterprise ]
All other jobs? I mean... doctor? Engineer? Ops? Science? Helm? Captain? XO?
I don't really see any advantage for either gender there. So yeah, that's like 1 role out of a cast of how many? Not really something that should affect the overall ratio all that much.
[In before people joke about Deanna's success rate when flying the Enterprise
]
Based on everybody on Earth having the same opportunity to be commissioned officers in Starfleet as everyone else. What the fuck else?
In the future everyone will be included. That's the ST way. As our society (American) has evolved, so has ST's vision of the future. There will always be backwards members of American society who resist societal evolution but, inevitably, evolution will have its way.
It's doesn't work that way. CBS isn't going to turn over one of their key properties to some guy with no experience who needs a chance.
- Status
Similar threads
