And they had such a great opportunity with Moondragon and Phyla-Vell/Captain Marevl/Martyr in Guardians of the Galaxy. Though admittedly as Moondragon was Drax' daughter they would have to change some things but still it could have worked. And come to think of it they didn't include any of the IMO interesting female characters from the comics. Or some of the more interesting male characters. The movie was proably already weird enough to the general audience.
Spoilers ST: Beyond - Surprising fact about Sulu
- Thread starter Jarvisimo
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Huh? How should they have done it? It was absolutely clear that they were a couple.
Agreed. This argument seems to be an example of the cross-race effect; like the crewman in TUC regarding the Klingons "They all look alike",
I have seen at least post on this board where the poster did not realise they were a couple and thought they were just good friends.
It does fascinate me when some people don't notice this sort of expression of homosexuality while to others it is very obvious.
To be honest, it didn't really become evident they were until the lover's death scene, and even that just confused matters since Spiner was intentionally hamming it up in that scene in a way that made me think they were trying to elicit laughs from the audience rather than an emotional moment, which is not typical in a movie when one character is witnessing their lover's death. The whole thing was just a WTF. Actually, that sentence could easily sum up that movie...
Yeah but there was plenty of heterosexuality from other characters. By this logic it would be fine to keep New Sulu's homosexuality subtle as long as we were getting lots of other blatant representations of homosexuality from other characters. Which we're not.The actor playing Sulu's husband is co-writer Doug Jung, who specifically wanted both partners to be Asian to buck the bias he sees of Asian gay men only ever going with non-Asians.
Also, maybe it's fitting that Sulu's sexuality is not stated explicitly, seeing as the same thing happened to Prime Sulu.
All depictions of sexuality in ST:Beyond were brief and subtle.
Indeed. It was first time we didn't see nu-Kirk sleeping with someone.
Let's see, what did we see? There was Chekov apparently getting kicked out by an Orion female crewmember in the log-entry montage. There were Spock and Uhura post-breakup, so nothing really happening there until their reunion. There was Sulu's fairly chaste reunion with his family. I think there were a couple of background extras kissing in Yorktown, because there are extras credited as "Kissing Guy" and "Kissing Girl." And there was Chekov flirting with another alien woman at the end. Other than that, there wasn't really anything that I can think of.
Exactly. Just because they weren't making out on screen doesn't mean that their relationship and feelings for each other were not a continuing,unambiguous plot thread.
Heck, McCoy explicitly refers to her as Spock's "girlfriend" a couple of times. No ambiguity there.
The camera pans over Sulu's console with a picture of his daughter and we also see his wedding ring (which wasn't there in the previous two films).
Then we see a man holding his daughter, they share an embrace and the man also has a visible wedding band.
It was fairly obvious to me what was what.
Then we see a man holding his daughter, they share an embrace and the man also has a visible wedding band.
It was fairly obvious to me what was what.
That's still pretty subtle compared to the blatant way heterosexuality is presented. I wasn't expecting a hardcore sex scene but something more obvious. Actual affection between Sulu and his husband, actually referring to their relationship by name, something more than clues to be put together. The presentation sounds like it was timid (yes I have a lot of opinions for someone who hasn't even seen the movie yet)
I can certainly understand how someone may be unsatisfied with how the relationship was presented. That is a subjective viewpoint. But the objective intent of the filmmakers (to show a homosexual, committed relationship) was clear in the finished product.
I am so far only judging by other people's comments. From what I'm reading it sounds like the marriage was clear if you paid attention to the details that added up to the logical conclusion. I'm not sure if it was clear or not. It does sound like an unobservant person might have missed it.
For all of Cho's good reasons for Sulu having an Asian husband, it does sound like that detail combined with the vague-ish presentation of the relationship allows for them to be read as brothers. If the husband hadn't been Asian I wonder if the relationship would've been more obvious.
Which doesn't in any way mean I object to the casting choice. (Although reading about their difficulties in finding an Asian actor willing to play gay adds another level of bitter to the whole thing. Maybe next time they shouldn't film in such a homophobic country. It may be silly but I even worried about Quinto's safety there)
For all of Cho's good reasons for Sulu having an Asian husband, it does sound like that detail combined with the vague-ish presentation of the relationship allows for them to be read as brothers. If the husband hadn't been Asian I wonder if the relationship would've been more obvious.
Which doesn't in any way mean I object to the casting choice. (Although reading about their difficulties in finding an Asian actor willing to play gay adds another level of bitter to the whole thing. Maybe next time they shouldn't film in such a homophobic country. It may be silly but I even worried about Quinto's safety there)
It might have been a bit timid but in the context of the film it didn't bother me too much. After all, the main focus or theme of the film was the Enterprise family, not the individual relationships the crew were having but them as a collective unit.
And honestly for me it seemed obvious they were a gay couple. In some respects I felt it was done in the style of Doctor Who where it was just there. No comment, no fuss.
And honestly for me it seemed obvious they were a gay couple. In some respects I felt it was done in the style of Doctor Who where it was just there. No comment, no fuss.
BLASPHEMY!
Oh, sure, the filmmakers' intent was laudable. They just weren't able to go as far as they wanted due to the squeamishness of overseas backers/distributors.
I am kind of tapped out here.
I just suggest everyone who hasn't yet - see the movie and judge for yourself.
I just suggest everyone who hasn't yet - see the movie and judge for yourself.
If you're referring to the last sentence of my post, please note the winking smiley I used to indicate that I was not serious.
Maybe it had something to do with the German dubbed version I saw? They were using terms of endearment right from the point when Spiner woke up from the coma.
The kissing couple was shown in the turbolift right before the scene with Chekov (was that really Chekov? I thought it was some random guy) and the Orion female.
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