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Spoilers ST: Beyond - Surprising fact about Sulu

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If people are having problems with Sulu carrying a photo of Demora around with him, than this is really going to get to them:

Spock Prime took a photo of the TOS cast with him. Which means he was actually sentimental enough to carry such a photo with him when he flew the Jellyfish on its failed attempt to save Romulus.
 
There is time in the movie for an inventory of Ambassador Spock's post-mortem personal effects?
Is there also time to show Kirk fueling up the 'cycle, too?
 
I just saw the movie yesterday afternoon, and I must say this whole thing about Sulu being gay and having a daughter seems to have been somebody's idea of drumming up business. At no time in the movie were the characters identified as being part of Sulu's families ut The actor who plauyed Sulu's husband, looked more like an older brother than Sulu's husband, So had I gone in with no knowle..I would've thought it was Sulu's brother and niece.
 
So had I gone in with no knowle..I would've thought it was Sulu's brother and niece.

Which is probably what the studio wanted. I heard that there was a kiss that was cut out, and it felt like some of Sulu's lines may have been cut too (since he hardly had any lines). I got the feeling that the filmmakers wanted to be more overt about it, but someone over their heads was nervous about having a gay lead in a tentpole action movie, so they required it to be cut down to the point where it was ambiguous at best.

I know that this did, in fact, happen with Jillian Holtzmann, the breakout character in the new Ghostbusters -- the character is meant to be lesbian and is clearly played that way, but the studio wouldn't let them state it overtly. Movie executives are still quite a bit behind the curve when it comes to inclusiveness.

Good point about the actor looking like a brother. They should've cast someone of a different ethnicity as the husband, so that it would be clear they weren't biological family. But maybe the studio would've objected to that too.
 
The actor who plauyed Sulu's husband, looked more like an older brother than Sulu's husband, So had I gone in with no knowle..I would've thought it was Sulu's brother and niece.
The actor playing Sulu's husband is co-writer Doug Jung, who specifically wanted both partners to be Asian to buck the bias he sees of Asian gay men only ever going with non-Asians.

Also, maybe it's fitting that Sulu's sexuality is not stated explicitly, seeing as the same thing happened to Prime Sulu. ;)
 
The actor playing Sulu's husband is co-writer Doug Jung, who specifically wanted both partners to be Asian to buck the bias he sees of Asian gay men only ever going with non-Asians.

Hmm, that's fair. But there's often a media bias the other way too, a tendency to default to same-ethnicity pairings in heterosexual screen relationships. So it's kind of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation, I guess.


Also, maybe it's fitting that Sulu's sexuality is not stated explicitly, seeing as the same thing happened to Prime Sulu. ;)

But by now we should be past the point where it has to be wink-wink, nudge-nudge. We should be able to treat it as casually as any other relationship. Look at The Flash and Arrow, where they have gay characters actually talking about their husbands and exchanging dialogue with them. In the first season of The Flash, Captain Singh's upcoming wedding to his boyfriend was a recurring background thread, treated just as normally and casually as it would've been if it had been his girlfriend. That's how you do it. Don't call special attention to it, don't tiptoe around it, just treat it like any other relationship. (Although Arrow has been reticent about showing Curtis Holt and his husband kissing, even though they have no problem showing Sara Lance kissing women.)
 
Good point about the actor looking like a brother. They should've cast someone of a different ethnicity as the husband, so that it would be clear they weren't biological family. But maybe the studio would've objected to that too.

Yeah that made it kind of weird. With Choo and the other actor looking so similar, the whole "Sulu is gay" thing seemed to be that he was in love with an extremely close relative. Really were the producers trying to put him across as being in a gay incestous relationship?
 
Speaking from my experience as a gay person used to having to comb through media for crumbs of hints that a character might be gay, I'm pretty confident in saying that just about any gay person watching that would look at that and piece together the combination of seeing the picture of Sulu's daughter and wedding band in the same shot, the way that they greeted each other, and the fact that his husband was with him at Kirk's birthday party are all signs that say 'husband.' Like, examining subtext is one of the first things that you start to accept as a way of life when it comes to looking for media portrayals, so to people used to nothing but subtext (look at the massive essays written by fans in regards to Dean Winchester, how there are dozens of bisexual people saying that he fits perfectly with their experiences of repressing their own bisexuality), it is absolutely a neon sign.

And I'm not saying it couldn't have been more - a kiss, not a make out session or anything, just a quick one when they greet each other should have been included. But I think that, while I wouldn't call it enough, and that the next movie should at least have Sulu refer to him (even if he doesn't appear) and explicitly refer to him as his husband, I do think that for the audience who needs it, they're able to get the message. It's not a big resounding victory or anything, but it's and important thing, that acknowledges that yes, we're part of this future.
 
Movie executives are still quite a bit behind the curve when it comes to inclusiveness.
Allegedly, studios are afraid of having gay characters in their movies because then those movies won't get shown in countries which still practice discrimination against homosexuals, like China and Russia, both of which contribute a decent percentage of foreign sales. Or so it's explained to be in threads detailing why Disney will never allow a gay character in a Star Wars movie.

Indeed, look at many other popular movie franchises, or even big movies from this year. The MCU has no gay characters, X-Men uses mutants as an allegory for homosexuality but there aren't any gay characters. Then there's Independence Day Resurgence in which Brent Spiner's character is clearly gay, but the matter is never stated directly, and the scene which carries the most blatant implication, does so in a manner probably meant for laughs.
 
By the way, the rumor that there was a deleted kiss between Sulu and Ben (the character's name in the script) has been debunked:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/sulu-husband-star-trek-beyond?utm_term=.pfZJD0bJ6#.pjOzMLqzN
What the filmmakers never wrote into the script, however, was a kiss between Sulu and Ben, out of a desire to make their reunion as prosaic as possible. “It’s funny, whenever I come home to my wife, I don’t always immediately kiss her hello, either,” Jung said. “At the airport, we sometimes hug, and there are the kids, and it sort of becomes about that. I think it was really important to represent this was a normal family reunion that happens without a lot of fanfare.”



Yeah that made it kind of weird. With Choo and the other actor looking so similar, the whole "Sulu is gay" thing seemed to be that he was in love with an extremely close relative. Really were the producers trying to put him across as being in a gay incestous relationship?

Whaaaat? I don't think Doug Jung looks much like John Cho at all. He's got a much rounder face, a heavier build, distinctly different eyes and nose -- they're not nearly similar-looking enough to be relatives.


Speaking from my experience as a gay person used to having to comb through media for crumbs of hints that a character might be gay, I'm pretty confident in saying that just about any gay person watching that would look at that and piece together the combination of seeing the picture of Sulu's daughter and wedding band in the same shot, the way that they greeted each other, and the fact that his husband was with him at Kirk's birthday party are all signs that say 'husband.' Like, examining subtext is one of the first things that you start to accept as a way of life when it comes to looking for media portrayals, so to people used to nothing but subtext (look at the massive essays written by fans in regards to Dean Winchester, how there are dozens of bisexual people saying that he fits perfectly with their experiences of repressing their own bisexuality), it is absolutely a neon sign.

Oh, no doubt. But the problem is that it's designed so that heteronormative-minded people can overlook it, and that's too timid. It should've been made more unambiguous.


Allegedly, studios are afraid of having gay characters in their movies because then those movies won't get shown in countries which still practice discrimination against homosexuals, like China and Russia, both of which contribute a decent percentage of foreign sales. Or so it's explained to be in threads detailing why Disney will never allow a gay character in a Star Wars movie.

Oh, that's sad. Putting profit over doing the right thing. (And not just foreign sales. It looks like two different Chinese production companies were financing partners on Beyond, judging from the opening logos.)


Indeed, look at many other popular movie franchises, or even big movies from this year. The MCU has no gay characters, X-Men uses mutants as an allegory for homosexuality but there aren't any gay characters.

There are two recurring LGBT characters in the television arm of the MCU -- Jeryn Hogarth, the cutthroat lawyer who debuted in Jessica Jones and appeared in the second-season finale of Daredevil (with more appearances coming, I believe), and Joey Gutierrez, the metal-melting Inhuman from Agents of SHIELD. No doubt it's easier to push that envelope on TV than in movies with overseas financing.

Which is reason to hope that Star Trek: Discovery will be able to be more overt about LGBT inclusion than Beyond was.
 
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No doubt it's easier to push that envelope on TV than in movies with overseas financing.
Undoubtedly. To pull the Star Wars example, although there's minimal chance of there being any gay characters in the movies, the Disney licensed novels do include plenty of gay characters. In fact, the Disney novels are said to feature the franchise's first gay characters, apparently this is something the old EU never touched. Or so goes the story, I think someone did find a dozen references to gay characters in the EU, but Disney still gets publicity for it anyway.
 
The original Star Wars EU had several gay characters.
There was a gay male couple who were weapons and armor dealers. They were friends with Boba Fett and acted as mentors to Han and Leia's daughter. They're out of continuity now (as is Han and Leia's original kids)
There were two lesbians in some of the Old Republic games who also appeared in the novels. There's a gay Sith and a bisexual male rogue who are also in the Old Republic games. The rogue appeared in some novels but I don't believe his bisexuality was referenced.
The new EU has already been more inclusive with prominent gay characters which is promising. It will be disappointing if they lack the courage of their conviction to let some gay characters actually appear on screen.
 
^^^Yeah, I was vaguely aware of the EU's gay characters. What I was getting at is when the first gay character showed up in one of Disney's novels (an Imperial Moff in Lords of the Sith from last year) a lot of news sites ran with the story "Disney brings first ever gay character to Star Wars franchise after nearly 40 years."
 
Yeah. There is a distinction since SW EU has always had this rigid canon structure, and while all the EU in the past was officially non canon, now they're claiming their EU is canon. So the new gay characters are the first canon gay characters. In novels. Unlike the previous gay characters in novels and video games.
 
Yeah. There is a distinction since SW EU has always had this rigid canon structure, and while all the EU in the past was officially non canon, now they're claiming their EU is canon. So the new gay characters are the first canon gay characters. In novels. Unlike the previous gay characters in novels and video games.

The old structure wasn't really "rigid." At first they said all the tie-ins were canon. Then, when contradictions started to happen (especially when the prequels came along), they refined it and introduced their "levels of canon" thing. There's this fan myth that it was always consistently defined, but it went through a lot of changes over the years, and Disney's ditching of the EU was far from the first time that formerly "canonical" tie-ins had been decanonized -- just the first time that all of them were.
 
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