HUGE Mr Sulu Spoiler

[JeffinOakland]

No, it's not that.

Then...I dunno. I do know I'm done explaining myself to you.

 

[Guy Gardener]

No, it's not that.

Temporally unique languages can grate against each other as much as geographically distinct languages sometimes.

 

[ancient]

You're confusing me.

It was a ruse!

 

[Awesome Possum]

"George, a year from now the press is going to ask you what you think about us making Sulu gay. You have a year to figure out the most diplomatically positive thing to say about the decision we have made without you, or you can create a massive turd storm."

It's probably more about promoting himself. He's become a sort of caricature of himself, a lot like Shatner himself. It's gets him attention and brings people to his Facebook and any of his other projects. A simple statement might show up here or get a brief mention in articles. Getting upset generates articles, controversy and media attention.

 

[borgboy]

"George, a year from now the press is going to ask you what you think about us making Sulu gay. You have a year to figure out the most diplomatically positive thing to say about the decision we have made without you, or you can create a massive turd storm."

"George, a year from now the press is going to ask you what you think about us making Sulu gay. You have a year to figure out the most diplomatically positive thing to say about the decision we have made without you, or you can create a massive turd storm."

I feel like the majority of the anti gay Sulu people were going to be anti gay whether Takei supported the idea or not. Sure, there's a minority out there that are nice non homophobic people that really would support a gay character and are genuinely only concerned about Takei's feelings - even after he's given his belated support to the whole thing. But a lot of homophobes are hiding behind concern for Takei while using whatever excuses they can find to make as big a fuss over the whole thing as they can.
I do agree that Takei loves attention and knows how to work the media to his advantage. Once he's seen the movie he may well embrace gay Sulu and get another media bump of publicity.

 

[Timewalker]

I am trying to have a civil conversation without dismissive remarks. So I would appreciate if you could stop accusing me of trying to troll you. (Doing that is, in fact, seen as trolling on this forum.)

I would appreciate if you would just stop this, period. The discussion is going on elsewhere, so let's keep it there, instead of here.

I am also genuinely interested in why you (sarcastically I assume) said you are aware of how much I respect your opinions when it comes to nuTrek.

See above reply.

I have been very critical of nuTrek myself (I strongly dislike Trek09). So even though I have not followed your own comments on nuTrek it sounds like we would be pretty much in agreement when it comes to nuTrek.

Which is why your comment baffled me.

Uh-huh. It's an old conversation that's been happening for the last 7 years. I'm not going to re-post it here.

I don't know. I don't think he owns the Sulu character. If they want to take the character in a new direction and he doesn't agree with it, that's just fine.
Maybe it would have made sense to talk to him first before explicitly stating that it's meant to be an homage to him, though.

They should have at least had the courtesy to ask if he'd be comfortable being publicized as the reason for their decision. The impression I got is that they went public and Takei was left somewhat blindsided by the whole thing.

Why should the previous actor decide who future interpretations of the role are performed? There's nothing wrong with taking input, but they shouldn't get to control the character because they played them first.

When did Takei ever say he wanted to decide how nuSulu should be performed? All he said was that he would have preferred an homage to Gene Roddenberry's interpretation of Star Trek, and not his own RL sexual orientation.

 

[{ Emilia }]

I would appreciate if you would just stop this, period. The discussion is going on elsewhere, so let's keep it there, instead of here.

Yet you are replying here so I am, too. You can't expect me to just disappear and not reply to your posts when you are replying to mine.

Uh-huh. It's an old conversation that's been happening for the last 7 years. I'm not going to re-post it here.

I haven't regularly followed the nuTrek discussion.
Again: Your sarcastic post about my respect for your opinion made no sense to me. I am very critical of nuTrek myself so I assume we are in agreement there? What were you trying to say then? You can't just drop that there making some vague assumption about me and not even say what it means.

In fact, even if you were not as critical of nuTrek as I am, I would still respect your opinion. I have no problem with people who disagree with me on nuTrek and love Trek09 for some reason. It's just that I really don't.

They should have at least had the courtesy to ask if he'd be comfortable being publicized as the reason for their decision. The impression I got is that they went public and Takei was left somewhat blindsided by the whole thing.

That is what I just said, isn't it?
That they probably should've talked to him before presenting it as an homage.
That doesn't change the fact that I'm happy about seeing a gay character in Star Trek, no matter what George Takei thinks about Sulu.

 

[jotap]

It's probably more about promoting himself. He's become a sort of caricature of himself, a lot like Shatner himself. It's gets him attention and brings people to his Facebook and any of his other projects. A simple statement might show up here or get a brief mention in articles. Getting upset generates articles, controversy and media attention.

Funny. ..naturally if he has the opinion he has, completely against what they did...that above could be the only explanation right?
Pls..

 

[jotap]

I feel like the majority of the anti gay Sulu people were going to be anti gay whether Takei supported the idea or not. Sure, there's a minority out there that are nice non homophobic people that really would support a gay character and are genuinely only concerned about Takei's feelings - even after he's given his belated support to the whole thing. But a lot of homophobes are hiding behind concern for Takei while using whatever excuses they can find to make as big a fuss over the whole thing as they can.
I do agree that Takei loves attention and knows how to work the media to his advantage. Once he's seen the movie he may well embrace gay Sulu and get another media bump of publicity.

Look out...don t give opinions based on what you think others think. Just joking.
And i have the feeling that we all know this is a mistake even if we do not want to admit it..Changing the background history of a character..it is simple.
Something like that can never be a good idea.
If Takei was supporting this i would thought he is mad. A really sad thing they are doing to him.

 

[Guy Gardener]

George is not completely against this move.

She's just not stoked.

Nonplussed for George Takei looks like anyone else plotting a murder.

Jotap, the "quote" button is for when you want to reply to a lot of different people in one post, then later you push the button "insert quotes" and you're done.

 

[jotap]

Thanks. I m yet to adapt to the forum..i can not also edit my posts unless this is because of the 14 days.
I know he is not completely against it. I also would like to see a openly gay charater on star trek. Why not.this is different. It is just a bad decision.

 

[CorporalClegg]

And i have the feeling that we all know this is a mistake even if we do not want to admit it..Changing the background history of a character..it is simple.
Something like that can never be a good idea.

Background histories change all the time.

Hell, in Blue Bloods, it happens in the same episode.

 

[Makarov]

I feel like the majority of the anti gay Sulu people were going to be anti gay whether Takei supported the idea or not. Sure, there's a minority out there that are nice non homophobic people that really would support a gay character and are genuinely only concerned about Takei's feelings - even after he's given his belated support to the whole thing. But a lot of homophobes are hiding behind concern for Takei while using whatever excuses they can find to make as big a fuss over the whole thing as they can.
I do agree that Takei loves attention and knows how to work the media to his advantage. Once he's seen the movie he may well embrace gay Sulu and get another media bump of publicity.

It seems to be the opposite here really. He supports a gay character in trek finally while not liking the character they chose to do it, yet many are itching to twist his statements into a debate about having a gay character or not. If you don't like gay sulu then you're a closet homophobe? Now they all have to distance themselves from his opinion or they'll get caught in the same overzealous response to misleading headlines as well. In effect him and everyone is not allowed to have an opinion on which character they choose.

At this point having a gay character finally is a great thing and outweighs the choice of character in my opinion, but I think people should be allowed to have an opinion without getting PC railroaded.

 

[jotap]

Background histories change all the time.

Hell, in Blue Bloods, it happens in the same episode.

maybe..but Blue Bloods it is not an iconic show..as far as i know..at least yet.
I think i saw some episodes of Blue Bloods ,can t even remember the name of any character.
hell, much like some of the new star trek fans this reboot brought.
maybe there, is an explanation for that change. People do not care.

 

[Guy Gardener]

In may 2010 Blue bloods was pulling (on average) 12.58 million viewers, and closed it's 2016 season with an average of 13.07 million viewers per episode and ranked as the number 10 most viewed program (while it was on, in competition with other first run network shows. 10th most watched Network show doesn't mean much if half the country is binging on Netflix.) in America (on average).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Bloods_(TV_series)

The numbers are good, and other than Tom Selleck the rest of the cast probably works for peanuts.

Personally I think Blue Bloods is tame and pat, just terrible (although I've only seen the first two episodes. WINK!) but if this is what America loves and needs (other than more football) I am truly saddened.

 

[Saul]

I feel like the majority of the anti gay Sulu people were going to be anti gay whether Takei supported the idea or not. Sure, there's a minority out there that are nice non homophobic people that really would support a gay character and are genuinely only concerned about Takei's feelings - even after he's given his belated support to the whole thing. But a lot of homophobes are hiding behind concern for Takei while using whatever excuses they can find to make as big a fuss over the whole thing as they can.

I realize that's just your opinion. But how do you identify between the two and make up the statistic that the nice people are in the minority when it comes to disagreeing on this?

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Thanks. I m yet to adapt to the forum..i can not also edit my posts unless this is because of the 14 days.
I know he is not completely against it. I also would like to see a openly gay charater on star trek. Why not.this is different. It is just a bad decision.

maybe..but Blue Bloods it is not an iconic show..as far as i know..at least yet.
I think i saw some episodes of Blue Bloods ,can t even remember the name of any character.
hell, much like some of the new star trek fans this reboot brought.
maybe there, is an explanation for that change. People do not care.

In the original Series, Uhura was a phone monitor who needed the help of multiple people and a dictionary to string together a single, poorly pronounced and barely understandable Klingon sentence despite her having spent decades serving in a time when the Klingons where the main enemy of Starfleet. In ST09 and Into Darkness, Uhura is a communications prodigy who can perfectly translate and speak Klingon at the drop of a hat, even before graduating the academy.

In the original Series, Uhura is also perfect professional, while in the new movies she argues with her commanding officers and unthinkingly has personal spats with her boyfriend right in the middle of dangerous missions.

In the original Series, Chekov is a mostly regular guy who makes funny jokes and gets beat up a lot. In the new movies, he's such an incredible genius that he's apparently skipped years of school, being a starfleet officer on the bridge crew at age *17*.

In the original Series, Khan is a selfish despot who would seemingly sacrifice anyone to get what he wants. In Into Darkness, Khan is a bigoted but fatherly leader who would do anything to save his 'family'. Plus, he's suddenly white and british.

By comparison to any of these things, and several others that I can't be bothered to even type out now, Sulu having a husband instead of a wife is a tiny change that will have almost no effect on the actual movies at all.

If you don't like characters being different or having different history, then these movies aren't for you in the first place, so why do you care?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I would appreciate if you would just stop this, period. The discussion is going on elsewhere, so let's keep it there, instead of here.

Saying this and then following it up with additional paragraphs of commentary in response to her post is contradictory. If you wish to stop the back and forth discussion, it is incumbent upon you to take the first step and stop responding to her. As long as you continue to do so, she is entitled to respond to your posts, and it's not breaking any rules for her to do so, so there's nothing for us to enforce.

 

[M'Sharak]

[ ... ]

If you don't like characters being different or having different history, then these movies aren't for you in the first place, so why do you care?

Well, why he cares or doesn't care is his business. It's really not anyone else's place to question.

I will say this to @jotap, though:

You keep adding new posts, but it's been a while since you've added anything new to the discussion. While we do know that:

• You don't approve of the Sulu character being gay in these movies
• You'd rather it had been a different, preferably new character instead
• You agree with George Takei (or at least you believe that you do)
• You think that giving the Sulu character this new bit of back story was a bad decision
• You think that this is being forced on you by someone
• You've decided because of all this that you're not going to watch the movie, or that you'll wait to see it when it comes out on DVD

While we do know all these things, merely saying them again and again isn't the same thing as participating in a discussion about it. Indeed, after the second or third time, it's pretty much spamming the forum and advertising your unwillingness to consider any other opinion or position. Now, I don't really want to give you a spamming warning, but I think everyone who's been paying any attention at all knows by now exactly where you stand on this, so you can stop repeating what you've already said many times before. Perhaps you might sit back for a while, read what other people are saying and consider the positions they're expressing, and maybe post again when you have something new to contribute to the conversation?

And use the Multi-Quote function, yeah. Click that "Quote" button on each of the posts to which you wish to reply, and then you can respond to them all in the same post. Much neater and less cluttered that way.

 

[jotap]

In the original Series, Uhura was a phone monitor who needed the help of multiple people and a dictionary to string together a single, poorly pronounced and barely understandable Klingon sentence despite her having spent decades serving in a time when the Klingons where the main enemy of Starfleet. In ST09 and Into Darkness, Uhura is a communications prodigy who can perfectly translate and speak Klingon at the drop of a hat, even before graduating the academy.

In the original Series, Uhura is also perfect professional, while in the new movies she argues with her commanding officers and unthinkingly has personal spats with her boyfriend right in the middle of dangerous missions.

In the original Series, Chekov is a mostly regular guy who makes funny jokes and gets beat up a lot. In the new movies, he's such an incredible genius that he's apparently skipped years of school, being a starfleet officer on the bridge crew at age *17*.

In the original Series, Khan is a selfish despot who would seemingly sacrifice anyone to get what he wants. In Into Darkness, Khan is a bigoted but fatherly leader who would do anything to save his 'family'. Plus, he's suddenly white and british.

By comparison to any of these things, and several others that I can't be bothered to even type out now, Sulu having a husband instead of a wife is a tiny change that will have almost no effect on the actual movies at all.

If you don't like characters being different or having different history, then these movies aren't for you in the first place, so why do you care?

You should ask yourself why does George Takei cares.