• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

HUGE Mr Sulu Spoiler

No. Just the most obvious.

Kirk is out, as I just showed.

Spock and Uhura are already in a relationship.

Cheov is probably too young.

Bones was already in a marriage (with a woman) that ended badly. That's not to say it would be impossible for him to, at his age, decide to settle down with a man--it certainly happens--it's just not very likely.

That just leaves Sulu and Scotty. And Scotty seems more like the life-long bachelor type. Besides, he already has Keenser.
 
Just why is Kirk "out" ? You are aware that gay people often have heterosexual relationships before finding out what they want.

And just why is Chekov too young? Lol. But Chekov would have been just as silly as Sulu. Chekov is even more anonymus then Sulu is.

If they were serious with the whole edgy and breaking new grounds and the other cliched stuff, they could have picked Kirk.
 
Last edited:
This isn't South Africa in the 80s, where the white residence oppressed %95 of the rest of the nation.

Homosexuals are a minority in the US.

10ish percent of the population, means 10ish percent of the people buying tickets and merch.

%10 is how much you matter to Hollywood.

Sulu is a good start.

Come back to Hollywood with the same demands when %70 percent of Americans are gay, and then you can have Kirk.
 
Gays having hetero relationships before figuring out what they want pretty much happens because social pressures make going with our natural feelings difficult. In a homophobia free world I don't think the figuring out process would need to involve that much denial.
That doesn't prevent Kirk from being bi/pan with a preference for women.
I don't get the bit about Chekov being too young. Too young to be gay? I don't think you meant that CorporalClegg did you?
Sulu was still the best choice, and before this I've rarely ever seen anyone show the slightest interest in Sulu's love life. Suddenly his heterosexuality is this precious flower that must be protected.
 
Gays having hetero relationships before figuring out what they want pretty much happens because social pressures make going with our natural feelings difficult. In a homophobia free world I don't think the figuring out process would need to involve that much denial.
That doesn't prevent Kirk from being bi/pan with a preference for women.
I don't get the bit about Chekov being too young. Too young to be gay? I don't think you meant that CorporalClegg did you?
Sulu was still the best choice, and before this I've rarely ever seen anyone show the slightest interest in Sulu's love life. Suddenly his heterosexuality is this precious flower that must be protected.

Once again you(and you're not alone) tries to make this some sort of anti gay issue. Again try to find some real arguments why dont you? I haven't seen anything here even remotely homophobic on this forum. It's not the fact that he is GAY. it's the fact it's a retcon from hell. It changes an EXTREMELY established character for absolutley no reason. I and the others here would have been as "upset" if Kirk would have been gay all along and they now changed him straight. Takei is even against it because it changes a really established character for no reason. If Sulu had at least had something written on him being homosexual so Takei and the rest could have hinted it. It's character retcon for no other reason then hype and publicity.
 
I'm not overly familiar with the last 2 movies so can someone clarify if Scotty is really in a relationship with that tiny alien creature? I'm unsure if it's an inside joke on the forum or not.
 
Once again you(and you're not alone) tries to make this some sort of anti gay issue. Again try to find some real arguments why dont you? I haven't seen anything here even remotely homophobic on this forum. It's not the fact that he is GAY. it's the fact it's a retcon from hell. It changes an EXTREMELY established character for absolutley no reason. I and the others here would have been as "upset" if Kirk would have been gay all along and they now changed him straight. Takei is even against it because it changes a really established character for no reason. If Sulu had at least had something written on him being homosexual so Takei and the rest could have hinted it. It's character retcon for no other reason then hype and publicity.

Sulu is literally the least established character short of Chekov when it comes to the question of sexuality. It's not even remotely a retcon of any proportions.

I'm not overly familiar with the last 2 movies so can someone clarify if Scotty is really in a relationship with that tiny alien creature? I'm unsure if it's an inside joke on the forum or not.

There's no romantic relationship. It's basically like an alien sidekick with attitude.
 
Chekov looked like a seventeen year old virgin in the 2009 movie.

(In the nineties where I went to school, there were plenty of gay kids under 16. The gay kids actually had their shit together, because announcing (and proving) their individuality was such a song and dance. It was the straight boys and girls who didn't end up losing their virginity till almost their 20s at university.)

I think a major reason that Sulu was chosen was because of Demora.

Gay family man with children.

Classy. Tired. Old. Safe.

Then people say, "look at how he loves his kid, I want to have a kid so I can be a great dad like Sulu!"

(Putting my Nerd hat on.)

If it's a family name, Sulu might have named two genetically different daughters Demora.

If it's a family name from Kelvin Sulu's husband, then it's unlikely that straight Sulu from the prime Universe with a female wife would have named his daughter Demora.

If Kelvin Demora is genetically identical to Prime Demora, then her creation was built upon from the same genetic donors, sexually or technologically.

Sulu + Unknown person.

Sulu's husband + Unknown person.

Sulu's husband + Sulu.

Unknown person + unknown person (ie adoption, duh.).

Elizabeth Tucker was a Binary Clone. Same tech, 100 years better. The gender of the donors is irrelevant, although if the donors were boy/boy, it should be impossible for their clone to be a girl without intrusive genetic manipulation which triggers rules about Eugenics (please not this rabbit hole again).

Even with a female wife, hypothetically Prime straight Sulu might have still made a clone of himself and called that child Demorra, or adopted a girl and called her Demora who might have been genetically the same girl in both timelines.

Although that would mean that Sulu would have been seeking an adopted child at nearly the point as the other Sulu when Demora was ready to be adopted, which means that Both Sulus had dispensed with their bullshit starter relationships and found their true love at the same time, which means that gay Sulu can't have had muddled period where he thought he was straight, chasing after the wrong women instead of the wrong men, because that would have added a couple years to his 5 year plan about when he was ready to settle down and have children.

Adopting the same child at the same time in that childs life, baring gross coincidences, must mean that Kelvin Sulu and Prime Sulu have the same dating histories on the path to marriage and children that the interconnection of Sulu and his daughter Demora still intersected, whether she was born, created or adopted.

Prime Spock.

(Uncle Spock?)

Prime Spock throws logic out the window if he decides to "fetch" Sulu's daughter for Sulu, if Kelvin Sulu and Prime Sulu's reproductive windows were out of sync, and Spock decided that this was a relationship (father and daughter) that needed a nudge in the prime direction, genetically the same Demora could have been "forced" on Kelvin Sulu by Old Spock.

Obviously if genetically the same Demora is from mostly Kelvin Sulu's husband, then it's quite impossible for Prime Sulu to have been straight. :)
 
Last edited:
Former Paramount Television head Gary Nardino produced Brothers, a sitcom focused on a gay lead in 1984 for the cable network Show Time.

1980s Americans sophisticated enough to pay for cable were ready for homosexuality on the small screen. Small minded hillbillies and bible thumpers with bunny ears clinging to UHF were not.

TNG was broadcast initially on affiliates as a first run syndication to ma and pa kettle in the boondocks. It was sold for free (ad space kick backs were agreed to.) to inflate the ratings relying on the collateral aggregation of thousands of regional TV stations rather than one Network to find it's viewers.

America is always a lot of different Americas.


That's cable (specifically pay cable), for you; I'm talking (and the person that mentioned this was talking) about syndication, which is just like standard network TV, sadly.
 
The actual interesting point (I was trying to make) is that if Star Trek had been made at Paramount while Nardino was Network President, if Nardino hadn't left, or Gene had approached them earlier, is that Paramount would have theoretically been open to talking about Gay characters on Star Trek, even if the considerable bulk of their audience wasn't.

It would have been a conversation ending in "No, sorry" rather than a declarative and immediate "NO!"
 
But with nuTrek it honestly irritates me that there's just one female character and that the idiotic producers figured it's a great idea to shove in a way to present both Uhura and Carol Marcus in underwear in completely gratuitous scenes.

To be fair, Kirk was in his underwear too during the scene with Gaila. And the showing of Marcus in hers was done as a way to show Kirk that he shouldn't ever be doing that again. There's nothing sexist about it, IMHO.

The actual interesting point (I was trying to make) is that if Star Trek had been made at Paramount while Nardino was Network President, if Nardino hadn't left, or Gene had approached them earlier, is that Paramount would have theoretically been open to talking about Gay characters on Star Trek, even if the considerable bulk of their audience wasn't.

It would have been a conversation ending in "No, sorry" rather than a declarative and immediate "NO!"

I apologize, and was just agreeing with you.
 
To be fair, Kirk was in his underwear too during the scene with Gaila. And the showing of Marcus in hers was done as a way to show Kirk that he shouldn't ever be doing that again. There's nothing sexist about it, IMHO.

Nothing sexist about the Carol Marcus scene that was only there as fan service?
So they could objectify her and make male nerds horny?

Even JJ later on admitted it was a stupid decision.

I'm glad you're here to mansplain sexism to me.
 
Was it only sexist because she's traditionally attractive?

If Carol had been 70 years old (not that there's anything wrong with that) or three hundred pounds (not that there's anything wrong with that) would that scene still be sexist?
 
Was it only sexist because she's traditionally attractive?

If Carol had been 70 years old (not that there's anything wrong with that) or three hundred pounds (not that there's anything wrong with that) would that scene still be sexist?

The sexual objectification wouldn't have worked so I don't think your question is really relevant. It just distracts from the actual question and I doubt you would ever claim that the Carol Marcus scene wasn't completely gratuitous and sexist fan service.
 
I think the actress has lockjaw, so I don't personally find her attractive as an object, but again, that's just me. A somewhat unobscured nearly naked almost perfect body revealed in that scene did not make me ignore or forget about her lockjaw.

She failed as a sexual object for me, but as a person (or a character) Carol or Alice could (and did) probably easily win me over.

Yes, you are right.

They hired a beautiful woman to be beautiful in an obvious way.

HA!

Years ago Alice was in a different movie that answered the question of if she is more than a sexual object as an actress.

The Decoy Bride.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Alice played an blockbuster actress who the press considered to be tits and ass in brainless filler movie crap, but then half way through her own wedding, she needed to sneak out in secret, so Alice created a false identity as an old haggared ugly buck toothed beggar woman, until she eventually found herself in a situation (surrounded by persons mistakenly thinking that they were talking behind her back, calling Alice awful at her job) where Alice's character got to unmask and say "Screw you I'm a fantastic actress!"
 
Elizabeth Tucker was a Binary Clone. Same tech, 100 years better. The gender of the donors is irrelevant, although if the donors were boy/boy, it should be impossible for their clone to be a girl without intrusive genetic manipulation which triggers rules about Eugenics (please not this rabbit hole again).

Female genome: xx
Male genome: xy

Hereditarily speaking XY+ XY could easily result in XX. The real problem with two male donors would be needing to ensure that at least one of them actually did wind up contributing an X chromosome (or finding some way to make a YY genome viable).
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top