HUGE Mr Sulu Spoiler

[Locutus of Bored]

Another example is Beverly Crusher being unhappy to have her Trill lover in another body (from that TNG episode, which name escapes me) which can be chalked up to her seeing an entirely different individual (no matter if it was our idea of male/female, etc.) and feeling that she had to move on.

Beverly slept with a living candle entity. She's a flaming pyrosexual.

 

[sojourner]

Pretty sure most of the crew are holosexuals. Barclay definitely is.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Pretty sure most of the crew are holosexuals. Barclay definitely is.

Geordi, too.

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

My final analysis:

Original Sulu is straight.

New Sulu is gay.

And all of this is just fine.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Different sperms?

They were both born after Kelvin.

 

[Doom Shepherd]

Did the Narada arrive in the NuTrek timeline before Sulu was conceived?
Because if it did, the butterfly effect makes it perfectly reasonable for TOS Sulu to be straight and NuSulu to be gay.

EDIT Ninja'd by a half-second!

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

Different sperms?

They were both born after Kelvin.

So I have a little secret for you...

The Kelvin/Nero thing was just a bullshit gimmick to trick old-school Star Trek fans into watching and buying into the new Star Trek timeline, even after we figured out that it was a reboot.

To the rest of the world, and to the current creative peeps, all it means is: "We can do whatever we want now!"

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Please, you don't think all the various heterosexual relationships shown in the franchise told the audience the orientation of the characters?

Nope.

They could have been bi or they could have been 'in the closet,' or they could have identified as something else. For example, Dax possibly was an omnisexual, or a pansexual, or 'sexually fluid' - which is sort of a buzzword, I think.

So, no, I don't think all the 'supposed' heterosexual relationships shown in the franchise told the audience the orientation of the characters. For all we know, Picard could have been bisexual. Just because we didn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't true...or couldn't come up in a future reboot...

Lt. Yar could have been a transgendered individual. Again, just because it wasn't explicit in the series doesn't mean it couldn't be true...or come up in a future reboot.

I should also add: For all the 'heterosexual' relationships that Kirk had onscreen, it didn't stop fanfic with him also having a 'gay' relationship with (or having feelings for) Spock, particularly one that was published by Pocket Books - "Killing Time," I believe was the title.

 

[Trekkin]

For example, Dax possibly was an omnisexual, or a pansexual, or 'sexually fluid' - which is sort of a buzzword, I think.

Oh fuck me. No.

There has been arguments put forward that bisexuals are actually in said 'fluid' state between hetero and homo but all studies testing that hypothesis have ended up disproving it. That's where the misuse of 'fluid' comes in. There are some bisexual people who try to claim they're just 'fluid' ("Im straight, but I'd go gay for...") but it's most common use is by conversion 'therapists.' Dangerous ground there.

But just because it's misused, doesn't mean it isnt a real term. Sexual 'Fluidity' refers to how you identify or behave, and it describes what happens to everyone. For eg. Nearly everyone begins their lives identifying as asexual, which changes as you mature and gain further knowledge and experience.

You're conflating it with how gender fluidity works, which has nothing to do with anything.

 

[Mage]

I am bit disappointed George Takei's reaction, and that he insists that Sulu will be 'outed' in this movie. So far, there is no indication of that. For all we know, the crew has been aware of Sulu's marriage all the time. And that it never came up is basicly normal the 23rd century. Sure, we have never heard of it before, but sofar, we've seen the crew during missions. A simple hinting towards his husband would have felt akward. The only relationship that was talked about was between Spock and Uhura, and that was only since it could have been a situation that could intervere in a mission. It wasn't as if anyone elses relationship needed to be hinted at. How would you, during a crisis? Ship exploding all around you, and suddenly Scotty turns to Sulu, asking, how does your husband feel about you taking such risks? That just feels weird during a highstake situation.

No, for me, personally, a small scene on Yorktown, where Sulu is talking with his family, and sees Kirk walking. He calls Kirk over, and says something like 'Captain, I'd like you to meet my husband' and Kirk replying 'It's so good to finally meet you, we've all heard so much about you'.

That would be it. Perfect. Nothing more. Establishes that everyone knew Sulu was married. I would be perfectly happy with that.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Oh fuck me. No.

You're sexuality (orientation) is permanent. If I never fuck another woman for the rest of my life, I'm still always going to be bisexual, because I am/was attracted to some members of the same sex.

Sexual 'Fluidity' refers to how you identify, and it describes what happens to everyone. For eg. Nearly everyone begins their lives identifying as asexual, which changes as you mature and gain further knowledge and experience.

You're conflating it with gender fluidity, which has nothing to do with anything.

We're getting into muddy waters because some (like myself) find it offensive when people try to label one's sexuality.

I lean towards girls but there are some guys (and transgendered individuals) I've been attracted to. I would hate for someone to try to label me to fit their ideas or agendas.

Everyone identifies their sexuality differently.

 

[Maurice]

There has been arguments put forward that bisexuals are actually in said 'fluid' state between hetero and homo but all studies testing that hypothesis have ended up disproving it.

What the heck are you even talking about?

 

[Trekkin]

I was editing my post while you were typing, to clarify why you've got to be careful about using that term. But yeah, this is getting a bit off topic.

What the heck are you even talking about?

Sexual fluidity (in regards to orientation) is basically claiming that orientation itself can be changed. It's...controversial. Not so much for the ideas original intent, but because some douchbags have co-opted for their own purposes.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Sexual fluidity (in regards to orientation) is basically claiming that orientation itself can be changed. It's...controversial. Not so much for the ideas original intent, but because some douchbags have co-opted for their own purposes.

Well, if I wanted to identify as sexually fluid, that would be my prerogative, my life...no one else's. If someone else feels it's 'controversial' on how I identify sexually in my personal life, that's tough for them.

However, I do agree with one thing: We're getting off topic. I believe this entire thread was about Sulu being retconned as a gay individual.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Good lord, if what you are saying is right, it must be Monday!

I hate Mondays.

Bad eyes.

I keep thinking the thread title is "Hug Me Sulu."

 

[Joel_Kirk]

lol...yes, I think we all need a hug.

(It's actually Saturday for me, though).

 

[Guy Gardener]

Did the Narada arrive in the NuTrek timeline before Sulu was conceived?
Because if it did, the butterfly effect makes it perfectly reasonable for TOS Sulu to be straight and NuSulu to be gay.

EDIT Ninja'd by a half-second!

We Saw Kirk being born on the Kelvin hours after the time line split.

Is Sulu Younger or older that Kirk?

John was 37 in 2009.

Chris was 29 in 2009.

Um... Is Sulu 8 years older than Kirk?

Kirk should be 5 years older since he started the Academy late, and they were in the same class?

 

[Trekkin]

However, I do agree with one thing: We're getting off topic.

Well, if I wanted to identify as sexually fluid, that would be my prerogative, my life...no one else's.

I think we agree on two things.

Urgh, I'm an idiot. Should have just said 'not a buzzword' and linked to a dictionary definition or something. But no, just had to post whilst still mad about an unrelated RL thing. That decision always leads to calm, well-thought out interactions with others.

I believe this entire thread was about Sulu being retconned as a gay individual.

I see what you did there.

It's actually Saturday for me, though).

Which is we're the first to see gay Sulu. 'Cept for Therin.

 

[F. King Daniel]

According to the IDW comics, Kirk and Sulu were both born in 2233.

 

[Devon]

Let me relay a personal experience with this....
My very first real love - I was with her when I was 18 and we were together for a while. Some stuff in my life just didn't work out but we remained the best of friends. She dated two more guys after me. Today, she is engaged to her girlfriend and she has no desire for guys. None at all.

Another story - There is a girl I knew from work. She was married and has a kid even with him. She divorced her husband and is currently engaged to her girlfriend who she has been with for two years. She has not only her kid but also adopted her step daughter from her ex-husband's previous relationship.

Perhaps in this timeline Sulu just discovered there was a guy he liked and began a relationship with him. Simple. You can't analyze the hell out of someone's preferences and try to justify it one way or the other. He is in a relationship with another guy. It's just that simple.

Moral of the story? Sometimes people switch teams halfway through the game. Remember, IDIC.

However, as was hinted at earlier in this thread, George Takei's opposition to this, unfortunately, seems to only be fuel for a large portion of two camps: Those who did not like the Kelvin Timeline films to begin with & Those who have homophobic tendencies (yes, there are exceptions to this, but one only has to read any negative comments to see this is largely the case.)

George seems to be taking a silly approach to this because he doesn't want to offend the supposed legacy of our Lord & Savior, St. Gene. If Gene (or whomever) developed Sulu as straight, that was because he had a show on a major network in the 1960s. The show was barely hanging on by a thread as it was, I VERY seriously doubt the censors would have let that fly back then. So it's extremely ironic that someone who is on the forefront of LGBT rights is justifying his opposition for a character he played being gay based on the fact that homophobic views were what prevented a gay character in Star Trek to begin with.

Mr. Takei may not realize his views, as entitled as he is to them, are potentially throwing the debate in the wrong (and confusing) direction.