You guys beat me to it about a new character... Let's face it, Lieutenant Hawk was an Ensign Ricky.
HUGE Mr Sulu Spoiler
- Thread starter Danlav05
- Start date
I never understand this position. I think it is weak.
The science isn't 100% that it is genetic, and not a choice. But my point it this:
It doesn't matter if it is genetic, or a choice, or both, or something else entirely... It's not anyone else's fucking business.
I chose to wear a purple shirt today. Probably not because of my genetics. But guess what? If you don't like it, too bad.
If my purple shirt is not causing you demonstrable harm, then you don't get to do anything about it.
Yup. He was.
Simon Pegg's rebuttal is spot-on, though. A brand new character, revealed as having a same-sex partner, would have been labelled "tokenism".
https://www.theguardian.com/film/20...defends-gay-sulu-after-george-takei-criticism
http://deadline.com/2016/07/star-trek-gay-sulu-simon-pegg-responds-1201784244/
The Kelvin universe gives the new films a chance to ask many "What if..."s - a UFP with no planet Vulcan, an Uhura who loves Spock, a Kirk with no Dad, a Chekov with blond hair, a Khan resurrected years earlier, a Sulu who found a same-sex partner.
Spock Prime is gay. It's why T'Pring divorced him.
Winona Kirk is still very much alive.
Winona Ryder's Amanda was killed off.
Last edited:
Spock only knew he was gay, because his marbles told him he was gay which is how he knocked up Robin Curtis?
Did Spocks Marbles tell McCoy that he McCoy was gay while he had Spock's marbles?
After McCoy gave Spock his marbles back, did McCoy miss Spocks Marbles urging him to do stuff?
Did Spocks Marbles tell McCoy that he McCoy was gay while he had Spock's marbles?
After McCoy gave Spock his marbles back, did McCoy miss Spocks Marbles urging him to do stuff?
Well if marbles is a euphemism for something other than brains,,,,
A
Amaris
Guest
I'm merely pointing out that it isn't some kind of active choice like "I guess I'll be gay today." With people who can't even agree that being gay is something that should be allowed visibility in the public eye, why would I dig into more nuanced studies?
Khan was only revived eight years earlier than he would have been, thanks to the destruction of Vulcan and Admiral Marcus. Speaking of the latter, I'd love to see what kind of a man he was in the prime timeline, assuming he was in charge of Section 31 in that timeline. Since Carol had her father's accent in the prime timeline, one wonders if she simply spent more time with her mom in the Kelvin Timeline.Simon Pegg's rebuttal is spot-on, though. A brand new character, revealed as having a same-sex partner, would have been labelled "tokenism".
https://www.theguardian.com/film/20...defends-gay-sulu-after-george-takei-criticism
http://deadline.com/2016/07/star-trek-gay-sulu-simon-pegg-responds-1201784244/
The Kelvin universe gives the new films a chance to ask many "What if..."s - a UFP with no planet Vulcan, an Uhura who loves Spock, a Kirk with no Dad, a Chekov with blond hair, a Khan resurrected decades earlier, a Sulu who found a same-sex partner.
Spock Prime is gay. It's why T'Pring divorced him.
Winona Kirk is still very much alive.
Winona Ryder's Amanda was killed off.
@mos6507:
How would the argument about it being more appropriate go, anyway? Would it be that half of the two were already established as interested in the PU, so that we were always halfway there already?
To fill the gap from halfway there to all the way, one would have to posit something about nuSpock that's contrary to Spock Prime, and do so to repair an objection that the nu-characters aren't like the Prime characters.
Also, Christine's interest in Spock trumping Spock's disinterest in Christine would feed the narrative that "yes, I'm interested in you" should be given greater weight than "no, I'm not." That's not appropriate (anyway, it makes me feel uncomfortable), and it smacks of both wish-fulfillment and objectification. Spock Prime was aware of Chapel's feelings and never reciprocated, as far as I/we know. I have very little doubt that Spock Prime knew exactly how she felt, because Christine carried Spock's consciousness in her head in "Return To Tomorrow."
Basically, to Christine, Spock Prime said, "No."
In addition, it was unrequited love. Spock Prime didn't feel the same. It takes two to tango.
How would the argument about it being more appropriate go, anyway? Would it be that half of the two were already established as interested in the PU, so that we were always halfway there already?
To fill the gap from halfway there to all the way, one would have to posit something about nuSpock that's contrary to Spock Prime, and do so to repair an objection that the nu-characters aren't like the Prime characters.
Also, Christine's interest in Spock trumping Spock's disinterest in Christine would feed the narrative that "yes, I'm interested in you" should be given greater weight than "no, I'm not." That's not appropriate (anyway, it makes me feel uncomfortable), and it smacks of both wish-fulfillment and objectification. Spock Prime was aware of Chapel's feelings and never reciprocated, as far as I/we know. I have very little doubt that Spock Prime knew exactly how she felt, because Christine carried Spock's consciousness in her head in "Return To Tomorrow."
Basically, to Christine, Spock Prime said, "No."
Agreed.
Maybe, maybe not.
While it was a fictional race, there was that one episode of TNG with the gender-less Race, where one of them wanted to have a gender, but their government tried to force them back to conformity. Riker argued for her right to be what she wanted.
It didn't handle it very well though. Though it was a very Star Trek way of handling a social issue.
A
Amaris
Guest
Well, it was a very safe, very backhanded way of handling the issue, in that it ended up addressing nothing. The message was so mixed there was little to be gleaned from it, though I do love that Jonathan Frakes was all about making the character more masculine. You gotta love him. Okay, maybe it's just that I love him.
I think it's ridiculous that they are making a straight character gay because the actor that portrayed the same straight character almost 50 years ago was, in fact, gay.
On the flip side, I don't think anyone didn't really see that one coming in today's world. I care about as little about that as I do about George Takei being gay. Live and let live. It is kind of silly, though.
On the flip side, I don't think anyone didn't really see that one coming in today's world. I care about as little about that as I do about George Takei being gay. Live and let live. It is kind of silly, though.
A
Amaris
Guest
Not to plenty of gay people who would like to be represented fairly and openly in a franchise they love. It seems silly to see someone throw a life preserver overboard when you're standing dry on the deck of a ship, but to anyone flailing in the water, it's a godsend and a beacon of hope. As for Sulu, it was never said he was straight. Unlike other characters in the original series, Sulu hadn't been in any kind of noted on-screen relationship. All we know is that in GEN he had a daughter, but there are plenty of same sex couples who have children.
And quickly forgotten the next week. Which is why this needed to be done with one of the main characters.
Actually, I don't recall any character in the Star Trek franchise having their sexual orientation explicitly told to the audience. It's been mainly certain 'fans' making stereotypical assumptions on the sexuality (e.g. Geordi can't get a descent girl, therefore he is gay. Or Malcolm Reed is lonely and can't find a descent female companion, therefore he's gay....or Harry Kim is scared of women, so therefore he's gay). Another example is Beverly Crusher being unhappy to have her Trill lover in another body (from that TNG episode, which name escapes me) which can be chalked up to her seeing an entirely different individual (no matter if it was our idea of male/female, etc.) and feeling that she had to move on.
Last edited:
She ####ed a monkey after her trill boyfriend died.
Please, you don't think all the various heterosexual relationships shown in the franchise told the audience the orientation of the characters?
Similar threads
