HUGE Mr Sulu Spoiler

[DigificWriter]

I'm surprised by all this backlash to George Takei's opinion on the subject.

The decision was made, and with it franchise history, and that's really all that matters in the end.

People can agree or disagree with it as they will, but it's not going to change anything.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Consider how hard Takei suppressed all that camp flare.

The super human effort he expressed for 4 decades to pass for straight on TV and film, flushed down the shitter.

(edit)

(Laughing and laughing.)

George suppressed his flare and TOS looked like TOS looked like.

John retroactively hasn't even tried to suppress his flare, and the first movie was just a f###ing mess of what we thought was lens flare, but really it was Sulu.

 

[mymatty]

Simon Pegg responds to George Takei

Well said.

George Takei is entitled to his own opinion on this move, but I know there are a lot of gay fans (not just of Trek, but of every geek property) who watch the movies, buy the merchandise, go to cons, and wait patiently for the day when the universes they love will finally stop acting like they don't exist.

Representation matters, not just for longtime fans but for young people just starting to notice and wonder at their own exclusion. It sends a message to society about not only what is important but WHO is important. These fans deserve a major character, a heroic character, whom they can relate to.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

If you can be genetically altered by an alien virus, and have your genome repaired in a matter of seconds, would it be an ethical violation for parents to opt for heterosexual children when it's only a matter of altering the genome?

I don't know, would it be an ethical violation if by the 23rd century homophobic bigots had been weeded out of the human genome so parents don't have to worry themselves with such backwards and petty concerns?

Fortunately, this kind of bigoted homophobic thinking is on its way out the door already and will have almost completely died off naturally in a couple generations, so it's wildly optimistic of the bigots to believe they'll inherit the future in such a way that parents would have to alter their children to avoid gay-bashing. The bigots can flail around about the evil gays and their insidious agenda for now, but their time is rapidly coming to a close as they get older and die, increasingly isolated in their hatred.

 

[Lance]

I forgot, there is one more example of Hetero-Sulu in (quasi) canon:
Animated Sulu is entranced by the girls in TAS: "The Lorelei Signal".

But maybe Animated Sulu isn't gay like his live-action counterparts.

 

[Captain Atkin]

I like the idea of Sulu being gay in the nu-Trek movies, and I have no issue with the idea that he was gay (or bi-sexual) in the prime timeline. Not once in the TV show or movies did they ever give him a love interest. They mention that he had a "family" in Generations, but they never once said that he was married to a woman, or had a female partner. He could have easily been in a same-sex relationship.

 

[Firebird]

Consider how hard Takei suppressed all that camp flare.

The super human effort he expressed for 4 decades to pass for straight on TV and film, flushed down the shitter.

(edit)

(Laughing and laughing.)

George suppressed his flare and TOS looked like TOS looked like.

John retroactively hasn't even tried to suppress his flare, and the first movie was just a f###ing mess of what we thought was lens flare, but really it was Sulu.

What in the hell is this incoherent mess? There was no "superhuman effort" on Takei's part - he's an actor, he plays roles. This campy image of Takei you have is another role he plays up in comedic videos - a heightened version of his real self.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

That's okay. We're not obligated to agree on opinions.

As aforementioned, just because your all for the change doesn't mean everyone is. Granted some dislikes are due to a 'dislike' of LGBT progression, while others (like myself) just don't think it gels with the character; I would have liked to have seen it go another direction (e.g. Kirk reveals he's gay). Also as aforementioned, I said I will see how the film handles it before I make a personal decision on whether or not I like the change...since, again, I'm under no obligation to like or dislike the change.

I don't recall saying anything about you not being allowed to have a different opinion, but by the same token I am allowed to disagree with the reasoning you gave for your opinion. If you had just said I would have preferred that they used a different character instead of an existing one that would have been one thing, but you justified your opinion with a bunch of old, offensive stereotypes about weak, effeminate gay men and made assumptions that that would be how they would treat Sulu in spite of him already having two movies where he wasn't depicted that way, which is all I objected to.

 

[StarMan]

I googled "George Takei Sulu Star Trek Beyond" on my way home tonight on the bus, expecting Takei to be chuffed.

Unfortunate? He pulled the 'what Gene wanted' card which I thought was unexpected and a little weird. It's a minor retcon that can be worked into the official canon if you care about that sort of stuff. Maybe gay Sulu detracts from gay Takei? Quite frankly, he's been a bit of a dick; Pegg and Linn had their heart in the right place. Its a nice way of finally introducing a LGBT character that isn't blatantly shoe-horned in. Additionally, it's a respectful and touching way of acknowledging Takei's story.

It may (repeat: may!) appear his reaction to this gesture just goes to show his ego might rival his dear friend Bill.

So yeah - something meant as an obvious tribute thrown back in the face is not a particularly pleasant outcome.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing how this pans out in the movie. I know Therin Of Andor you're sworn to secrecy as you were with STID, but I'm guessing the scene is short but sweet?

 

[psCargile]

I don't know, would it be an ethical violation if by the 23rd century homophobic bigots had been weeded out of the human genome so parents don't have to worry themselves with such backwards and petty concerns?

Fortunately, this kind of bigoted homophobic thinking is on its way out the door already and will have almost completely died off naturally in a couple generations, so it's wildly optimistic of the bigots to believe they'll inherit the future in such a way that parents would have to alter their children to avoid gay-bashing. The bigots can flail around about the evil gays and their insidious agenda for now, but their time is rapidly coming to a close as they get older and die, increasingly isolated in their hatred.

That's an interesting judgement raised by an impartial question concerning a conundrum in science fiction about society and technology.

 

[Lance]

Consider how hard Takei suppressed all that camp flare.

The super human effort he expressed for 4 decades to pass for straight on TV and film, flushed down the shitter.

(edit)

(Laughing and laughing.)

George suppressed his flare and TOS looked like TOS looked like.

John retroactively hasn't even tried to suppress his flare, and the first movie was just a f###ing mess of what we thought was lens flare, but really it was Sulu.

What in the hell is this incoherent mess? There was no "superhuman effort" on Takei's part - he's an actor, he plays roles. This campy image of Takei you have is another role he plays up in comedic videos - a heightened version of his real self.

Our friend Guy Gardener here has a habit of being.... 'facetious'. His tongue is very often planted firmly within cheek, as they say.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

That's an interesting judgement raised by an impartial question concerning a conundrum in science fiction about society and technology.

There's nothing impartial about asking whether homosexuality would have been bred out of the genome in the future. But points to you for phrasing it in a way that sounded like concern for the well-being of the children and parents. There's a term for that.

 

[Guy Gardener]

What in the hell is this incoherent mess? There was no "superhuman effort" on Takei's part - he's an actor, he plays roles. This campy image of Takei you have is another role he plays up in comedic videos - a heightened version of his real self.

Hello youngling.

 

[StarMan]

@Locutus: I'll take an 'i' and 'o' for vowels. b','a','g' ... Hmm. It might be quicker taking a 'T', 'r', 'u', 'm', 'p'.

I'm sorry I make awful jokes half intoxicated.

Hello Guy. Shouldn't you be in bed by now?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

it's his character

No, it isn't.

 

[mymatty]

Unfortunate? He pulled the 'what Gene wanted' card which I thought was unexpected and a little weird. It's a minor retcon that can be worked into the official canon if you care about that sort of stuff. Maybe gay Sulu detracts from gay Takei? Quite frankly, he's been a bit of a dick; Pegg and Linn had their heart in the right place. Its a nice way of finally introducing a LGBT character that isn't blatantly shoe-horned in. Additionally, it's a respectful and touching way of acknowledging Takei's story.

Yeah, I truly don't understand George's opposition. Saying that it's not what Roddenberry wanted in the 60's is pretty irrelevant considering the constraints he was under back then and the fact that times (and the fans) have changed. It's like opposing a new law because "it's not what George Washington would have wanted." He's not around anymore, we have to do what's right for the people of today.

And fans in general need to stop hiding behind total opposition to all retcons. This is a positive change in that it associates a main cast member with an underrepresented community. Trek should be in the vanguard of inclusivity, it's part of what makes Trek Trek, and this continues that tradition.

 

[Michael]

Zachary Quinto also responds beautifully to George Takei's comments:

I find as a member of the LGBT community myself I [was] disappointed by the fact that George was disappointed. You know, I think any member of the LGBT community that takes issue with the normalised and positive portrayal of members of our community in Hollywood and in mainstream blockbuster cinema. I get it. [Takei] has had his own personal journey and has his own personal relationship with this character but, you know, as we established in the first ‘Star Trek’ film in 2009, we’ve created an alternate universe, and my hope is that eventually George can be strengthened by the enormously positive response from especially young people who are heartened by and inspired by this really tasteful and beautiful portrayal of something that I think is gaining acceptance and inclusion in our societies across the world, and should be.

 

[JeffinOakland]

I look at Takei's response as a kind of "angry old man shakes fist at clouds." When you are of a certain generation, you become used to a certain way of doing things. Takei had a personal and professional relationship with Roddenberry and is indebted and devoted to Gene's original vision. I think Takei is kind of missing his own point. He has been THE advocate for LGBT rights in the ST community. Now, ST experiences this major milestone and Takei misinterprets it.

 

[mymatty]

I look at Takei's response as a kind of "angry old man shakes fist at clouds." When you are of a certain generation, you become used to a certain way of doing things. Takei had a personal and professional relationship with Roddenberry and is indebted and devoted to Gene's original vision. I think Takei is kind of missing his own point. He has been THE advocate for LGBT rights in the ST community. Now, ST experiences this major milestone and Takei misinterprets it.

I'm not sure George even fully understands what they've decided to do with the character.

He's quoted in the THR article as saying, "I told him, 'Be imaginative and create a character who has a history of being gay, rather than Sulu, who had been straight all this time, suddenly being revealed as being closeted.'" But Sulu isn't revealed to be closeted in STB, he's just revealed to be married, and this is not news to the other characters (who already know and accept him) but to the audience alone.

 

[mos6507]

I look at Takei's response as a kind of "angry old man shakes fist at clouds."

He's come out in opposition to this using much the same rationale that those who get instantly tarred and feathered as homophobes--that the character was conceived to be straight and played straight by him for decades and LGBT characters are best introduced as new ones rather than being grafted onto old ones. Since he himself is gay, it's hard to turn around and brand him a bigot, so now people are going to play the "he's an old man from an earlier time" argument? Why can't people respect that there's a valid reason to oppose this on creative grounds without trying to accuse them of harboring some character flaw?