Religion and Star Trek

[fireproof78]

I don't think Jesus is mentioned once in any ST show or movie. Imagine if The Enterprise had been a churchship on a mission of conversion. They would have been told to go home by every species they encountered.

Why?

I have to imagine The God Thing would've killed Star Trek.

I tend to agree. It sounds rather crazy, and I'm not surprised that the studio wouldn't approve it.

Also, what's funny, is that Star Trek V had one concept of them going on the hunt for God and finding the literal Devil. Even GR tried had to convince Shatner that it was a bad idea because GR had tried it before.

 

[uniderth]

I don't know. I think concept behind The God Thing is interesting. We've seen similar stories already. Fist fighting Jesus would have made TV(if done on the small screen)/movie history. What I would find really interesting is an episode where the crew actually do meet God. but it must be done in a way that simultaneously supports all religions AND offends them.

But really, I find the "de-aging" of the crew ending an interesting way that could be used to re-cast the crew while also maintaining the series continuity.

 

[TwoJakes]

Imagine if The Enterprise had been a churchship on a mission of conversion. They would have been told to go home by every species they encountered.

In Errand of Mercy the natives basically told Kirk and Spock to go away, they didn't. So did the natives in Mirror Mirror. Vaal made it clear they weren't wanted.

I'm not sure why you feel that a request to establish a mission on another planet would be meet with a refusial. A few years ago a Buddist temple was established not far from where I live in a mainly Catholic section of Miami, no one opposed their building permit or told them to "go home." I've been there twice and found it interesting.

While it's possible that the natives would be completely lacking in curiosity about the customs and ways of a (to them) alien species, why would that be ubiquitous?

Fist fighting Jesus

But would Jesus fight back?

 

[JeffinOakland]

Why?

Because proselytizers are boring condescending jerks by nature.

 

[uniderth]

Humanity in Star Trek have been quite effective missionaries for the 20th century western way of life. The reality is there is very little difference between a cult and a culture.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Star Trek was comfortable with using the concept that the "gods" of human past were all space aliens.

 

[fireproof78]

You're quote isn't quite right. Also, the TNG crew proselytized all the time.

Some religious people actually enjoy talking and learning about other religions. Some alien cultures might actually be curious about what human religion might look like. Successful missionaries are often not ones who preach, but live within the culture and get to know the people. Given what we seen of some of the aliens in Trek, their might be a genuine curiosity to learn about humanity.

It's not that outlandish of a thought.

Star Trek was comfortable with using the concept that the "gods" of human past were all space aliens.

They even had several major powers be the product of one alien race's work in "The Chase."

 

[JeffinOakland]

You're quote isn't quite right. Also, the TNG crew proselytized all the time.

Some religious people actually enjoy talking and learning about other religions. Some alien cultures might actually be curious about what human religion might look like. Successful missionaries are often not ones who preach, but live within the culture and get to know the people. Given what we seen of some of the aliens in Trek, their might be a genuine curiosity to learn about humanity.

It's not that outlandish of a thought.


They even had several major powers be the product of one alien race's work in "The Chase."

Learning? Yes being told their belief system is wrong and they need to convert or go to hell? no

 

[fireproof78]

Learning? Yes being told their belief system is wrong and they need to convert or go to hell? no

That's only one way to go about it. I see it working, if there is a willingness on the part of the writers to craft religious people as more than just strawmen to highlight how wrong religion is.

Again, Babylon 5 actually did an ok job with this.

 

[JeffinOakland]

That's only one way to go about it. I see it working, if there is a willingness on the part of the writers to craft religious people as more than just strawmen to highlight how wrong religion is.

Again, Babylon 5 actually did an ok job with this.

Religion isn't the problem. Religious people are the problem. It might work if you had one open-minded intelligent religious naturally curious person on board a ship on a general mission. A missionary ship would be out to convert the heathen.

 

[1001001]

I'm just trying to imagine some Space Mormon or Jehovah's Witness going door to door on Qo'noS...



Actually, The Expanse has Space Mormons, so there's that..

 

[Phoenix219]

But any way of life is accepted, so long as you also accept others who choose not to live that way.

But thats the problem these days - the kneejerk response to political correctism exists because they do not accept others who choose not to live that way and continue to attack anyone with opposing views, applying a judgement on what views are right and what views are wrong, rather then agreeing that unique perspectives, as long as they are internalized, are each individuals rights, no matter how much one might disagree with them.

 

[uniderth]

Actually, The Expanse has Space Mormons, so there's that..

As a Mormon I will tell you that Mormons have been Space Mormons since the 1840s.

But thats the problem these days - the kneejerk response to political correctism exists because they do not accept others who choose not to live that way and continue to attack anyone with opposing views, applying a judgement on what views are right and what views are wrong, rather then agreeing that unique perspectives, as long as they are internalized, are each individuals rights, no matter how much one might disagree with them.

Which is why I don't think that "tolerance" can really be a virtue. Because tolerance must be inclusive of views that destroy itself.

The reality is that we all have limits to what we consider acceptable behavior in others.
Case in point:

rather then agreeing that unique perspectives, as long as they are internalized, are each individuals rights, no matter how much one might disagree with them.

Meaning, you think differing views can only be tolerated when they are not outwardly expressed. But does a person truly have the right to believe what they will if they do not have the right to express that belief outwardly? For any outward expression of one's views would not be tolerated.

What people seem to want is just the right amount of tolerance that includes everything they support, but excludes anyone who disagrees with them.

To put it succinctly, with all the cries for tolerance from all sides, there seems to be little actual tolerance being expressed.

 

[B.J.]

I'm just trying to imagine some Space Mormon or Jehovah's Witness going door to door on Qo'noS...



Actually, The Expanse has Space Mormons, so there's that..

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[VulcanMindBlown]

It was my wanting to give the thread a chance here, even though discussions of topics like politics and religion are usually kept in Miscellaneous or The Neutral Zone. It wasn't helping the thread to compound the issue by going off on a controversial tangent that was bound to invite completely off-topic arguments (as it did).

Sorry.

Discussing it is a bit different than forcing it on people and Christians have a pretty poor track record of only wanting to "discuss" their religion.

I've never had a secularist knock on my door and want to talk to me about their beliefs. Nor have LGBT people, Jews and many other folks.

I guess every group needs a storyteller.

I would say that the militant Leftist and Atheists (though I am sure that there are more, I have a friend who's adamant about Judaism and hates Christianity) can sometimes proselytize their beliefs too. However, Judaism does care about the nature of the world coming to God, but there's nothing like the "Great Commission."

I've heard this too but mostly among a certain subset of fundamentalist American Christians. I highly doubt mainstream believers would agree.

[I'll add the part he's quoting later.] I count myself as one of those people. I don't believe in the theory of Evolution, and it causes problems for Christianity, but it makes science fiction interesting. We haven't proven that extraterrestrials exist beyond the shadow of a doubt in everyone in this culture, but there are true believers of E.T.s.

To me the characters and general style of the franchise are very open-minded and tolerant, as are most of the fans, and so there should be a lot of room for new and different kinds of fans; part of the fun of having different beliefs and relating them to fiction, though, is trying to persuade others about them (attempting to persuade isn't discounting or ostracism).
While most of the characters seem to be non-religious, only Picard and Jake Sisko seemed fairly hostile to religion and both of those moments were pretty brief and atypical. I found it particularly interesting that Spock and McCoy thought of Genesis as fictional and yet felt it had some philosophical value and wisdom.

That is true. We can't really have "Christianized" Star Trek in our multicultural fan base. Of course, I don't want my beliefs forced on anyone, but they do kind of consider religion to be a thing of the past and pseudo-science.

Most of my life my family and friends have all hated Star Trek. When I went to Church it was the first time I got to know any fellow Trekkie's. We are going as a Church group to see Star Trek Beyond and often share information which with each other about fan productions we have seen online. We all especially like Star Trek Continues.

Whilst Star Trek is secular, I think what Christian Trekkies tend to enjoy most is the morality plays that explore the human condition.

 

[fireproof78]

Religion isn't the problem. Religious people are the problem. It might work if you had one open-minded intelligent religious naturally curious person on board a ship on a general mission. A missionary ship would be out to convert the heathen.

There are more than one way to convert people is my point.

 

[Elder Knight]

Religion isn't the problem. Religious people are the problem.
...

I've heard it stated "God doesn't work in strange ways -- He just works through strange people."

 

[JeffinOakland]

Ti
here are more than one way to convert people is my point.

Space travel is dangerous and missions are time consuming. I have hard time willing to believe missionaries willing to brave space travel are going to take no for an answer. If history is any indication, the missionaries will make planet fall with a bible in one hand a phaser in the other.

 

[BillJ]

Space travel is dangerous and missions are time consuming. I have hard time willing to believe missionaries willing to brave space travel are going to take no for an answer. If history is any indication, the missionaries will make planet fall with a bible in one hand a phaser in the other.

Which is my biggest problem with religion. You want to follow those tenets and worship your God? Great. Leave me alone and let me live my life.

 

[JeffinOakland]

I've heard it stated "God doesn't work in strange ways -- He just works through strange people."

There have been a lot of studies of what religion does to the human brain. It ain't pretty.