I don't even think they would have a problem with animation, but what do I know.
BREAKING: Official Fan Film Guidelines Issued
- Thread starter Danlav05
- Start date
I feel the reverse. Vague rules are what leads to people applying subjective interpretation in order to get around things. The more specific, the less wiggle-room.
I also feel that the guidelines, as worded, are very direct and very clear to understand. I think what the CBS/P rep did in the interview is muddy the waters by waving his hands and saying they're "guidelines" as a way to soothe fans. This invites people to apply their own selective interpretation yet again.
Do I think anyone publishing a series with recurring characters will get a C&D simply by virtue of recurring characters? No, probably not. But it's that cloud of uncertainty that the guidelines were meant to erase, and on this point I just don't think they do. They could if they amend the guidelines or the rep issues a followup statement. Until then it will fall back to the usual "X did it and nobody complained" approach of testing the waters.
Bottom line: the guidelines are to curb excess.
CBS/P didn't have a beef with productions like STC, NV and they like because they comported themselves in a responsible manner. But they also painted a way for someone less ethical to exploit the situation.
Enter Alec Peters.
Now the guidelines set a scenario that while still flexible also doesn't allow for excess.
It's mostly the spirit of the guidelines they want followed rather than the letter. But I think there are certain "do nots" they will no longer accept. No more merchandising for one thing. Don't have Star Trek in your work's title other than acknowledging your a fanfilm. Don't try to register, copyright or trademark what you do in relation to your project. Keep your goals more modest. Stay away from ongoing arc based stories. They also don't want to see anymore full length (50-60 min.) episodes or 90 min. plus features.
They also want to avoid any possible sign of official endorsement--hence barring Trek alumni from participating in fanfilms. I think this one needs further discussion and clatification. Visible big name performers from any of the official series is one thing, but minor guest performers or behind-the-scenes people is something else.
CBS/P didn't have a beef with productions like STC, NV and they like because they comported themselves in a responsible manner. But they also painted a way for someone less ethical to exploit the situation.
Enter Alec Peters.
Now the guidelines set a scenario that while still flexible also doesn't allow for excess.
It's mostly the spirit of the guidelines they want followed rather than the letter. But I think there are certain "do nots" they will no longer accept. No more merchandising for one thing. Don't have Star Trek in your work's title other than acknowledging your a fanfilm. Don't try to register, copyright or trademark what you do in relation to your project. Keep your goals more modest. Stay away from ongoing arc based stories. They also don't want to see anymore full length (50-60 min.) episodes or 90 min. plus features.
They also want to avoid any possible sign of official endorsement--hence barring Trek alumni from participating in fanfilms. I think this one needs further discussion and clatification. Visible big name performers from any of the official series is one thing, but minor guest performers or behind-the-scenes people is something else.
That may be true - but at least the reassurance is that if the waters fail the test, so to speak, the consequence will be a C&D and not a lawsuit. Unless you've jumped to Axanar levels of profiteering, which I think *everyone* should know better than - now, if not that they always did.
This might also explain why CBS/P C&D's Horizon's followup, since it had an epic sort of scope to it.
The big question is what the fate will be of STC and NV. It sounds like they've got a free pass to put up any leftovers they have in mid-stream but beyond that it seems like CBS/P wants them to fold. The big tragedy of STC from a logistical standpoint is that they just built that engineering recreation. It would suck to not put it through its paces a few more times. I'm hoping when these productions fold that the physical assets can be repurposed.
What has been indicated by the transcribed interview is that "series" or "episodes" are limited to 30 minutes of distinct stories. I suspect that if they do some creative rewriting, STC and NV can continue. OR they could setup some new shows using the same sets exploring different issues but with different characters in the hot seat. It would interrupt the concept of "new series" of TOS, but i think that was intentional.
What I got out of the podcast: Ferrari's should be illegal because their existence is unfair to the average car owner. I guess we're back to the era of 15 minute segments of a full length film being released over a 10 year period. Maybe that will satisfy the guidelines, or maybe not.
You cannot truly level the playing field in terms of talent and ability. Some people will just naturally be more creative and resourceful than others. If you go too far to hinder the above average capable then everyone suffers. Those who excel inspire others rather than diminish.
Mr. van Citters did speak directly to animations and cg created characters. That everyone creating fan films whether animated, cg characters, live action are encouraged to use these guidelines. You know, max $50,000 collected via crowd funding platforms per ea up to 15 minute film. (which includes the platform fees therefore the 'usable' monies will be less) I am as yet unclear on (am listening to the Engage podcast w him again today or tomorrow) if a 15 minute piece is expanded to 30 with a two parter remains at the $50,000 crowdfunded ceiling.
However, any money sources used outside of 'solicited' on, say PayPal, IndieGoGo, (going to a convention & setting out a donation jar maybe? LOL maybe not?), etc., are not limited in any way. Like if Mr. Mignogna, Mr. Cawley, me, whomever had a bank account and used my own money, mortgaged my house for big bucks, my dad giving me a bag of money, my supportive friends offered me millions of dollars, anything like that, it can all be spent on any fan film or films I make. This $$ ceiling directly and only speaks to crowd sourced platforms.
And here's the thing in my own takeaway from Mr. van Citters' discussion; these guidelines, as has been previously discussed, are intended to give parameters, boundaries if you will, that tells us where we can work comfortably knowing we will not even be raising their eyebrows.
Also, that neither he, nor TPTB are going to limit anything we 'chose' to do. That our choices will be entirely ours. Nor does he or TPTB intend to field lots of telephone, text, emails questions about 'Can i do this? Can I do that?' That with these guidelines we will be respected as intelligent independent self-monitoring autonomous film makers who are free to make our films at our own discretion. That if we move outside these parameters that is entirely our choice, and is also the choice of C/P to then wake up again and start examining at our project from their own perspective and priorities.
That the guidelines, Mr. van Citters says, are the target but not a law.
He also said in the interview:
"I feel strongly that $50,000 where you're talking about 15 minutes should be able to go fairly far. All of this is definitely a conversation. We hope very much that this helps kind of settle things with Star Trek fan films. That will provide some clarity for everybody. And that we can see what is working and what's not working, and we can follow up accordingly with that. We're not issuing these as fan film laws. These are fan film guidelines and we want people very much to operate within these and respect both us and Star Trek [from their perspective as owners & managers of that property] as a whole."
Now that didn't sound threatening to *me*. But it does say *me* that if one or more of our own noticeably breaks out from minimal self monitoring they are asking of us, they reserve the option to say 'Well, that didn't work did it.' And, as Mr. van Citters said, 'follow up accordingly.'
YMMV on how I interpreted this of course, but it is clear, at least to me, that it is the Excesses, as perceived by them, that made them 'see' us. It is the lack of excess that will move them back into not seeing us again... and just letting us be.
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I think it would if you were to put the "shorts" on a Youtube channel and call the channel Starship: Absolution You can still proceed with some retooling, just trim some fat off of the scripts.
Have the title card on the episode be
Starship: Absolution Presents:
"Episode Title"
A STAR TREK FAN PRODUCTION
And from there it should still fit the new guidelines as long as the episodes are episodic in nature and not serialized. From what I can tell at least.
The people who created the petition to urge CBS and Paramount to grant an exemption have posted an update with the following quote from the "Star Trek Continues" team:
"Hello everyone!
As many of you know, CBS has created a set of guidelines for fan films going forward. CBS's John Van Citters mentioned in a recent podcast that existing fan film productions will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis and that each production's intentions toward Star Trek is key in determining its future. We are hopeful that, because we at STC have shown the utmost respect for CBS and Star Trek all along, we will be allowed to bring a conclusion to our show as planned. We are waiting for further clarification and will update all of you as soon as we can. In the meantime, we are putting the finishing touches on episode 7 and are in the pre-production stages of episode 8.
We completely support CBS in this and will do our very best to comply with any and all requests from the copyright holders just as we have always done. We thank all of you for your continued support and for your patience as we await further information."
https://www.change.org/p/cbs-paramo...k=PpPfJA3MWg0aAxR3rTope-19j-oJEoayETL3wdVCQgc
"Hello everyone!
As many of you know, CBS has created a set of guidelines for fan films going forward. CBS's John Van Citters mentioned in a recent podcast that existing fan film productions will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis and that each production's intentions toward Star Trek is key in determining its future. We are hopeful that, because we at STC have shown the utmost respect for CBS and Star Trek all along, we will be allowed to bring a conclusion to our show as planned. We are waiting for further clarification and will update all of you as soon as we can. In the meantime, we are putting the finishing touches on episode 7 and are in the pre-production stages of episode 8.
We completely support CBS in this and will do our very best to comply with any and all requests from the copyright holders just as we have always done. We thank all of you for your continued support and for your patience as we await further information."
https://www.change.org/p/cbs-paramo...k=PpPfJA3MWg0aAxR3rTope-19j-oJEoayETL3wdVCQgc
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm still concerned that anything after the 30 mins is
going to be considered a follow up episodes as part of a series even if it'sit's a self contained story. Also its not possible without a mammoth rewrite to contain the story in episode form. I have 3 episodes in production wbich were going to be released a week at a time. I hope these will be considered retrospectively
Prometheus is getting a sequel, and deserves one more than Alien does (Alien is finished, and frankly IMHO has no more story in it.)
What I took from it is that, using your car metaphor, they're okay with everything from a moped to a tractor-trailer sharing their "road of fan production fun" - but if you try to drive one of those big four-vehicle-width dump trucks on it and shut others out or make them leery of trying to drive on the road themselves, they're gonna have to stop you. And also, Axanar is not allowed to post signs and close off part of the road to use as their personal driveway.
New Voyages made me go back and watch TOS. I was an almost exclusively TNG era fan.
Too bad because I "liked" and then "unliked" only so I could "like" again.
There was a guy who created a few feature length animated films under the title "Star Trek:Redemption". Each 'episode' was a bit over an hour long, the sets and animations were done entirely by himself, using freely available character models that he modded for his movies. He voiced all the characters himself, and to the best of my knowledge entirely self-funded.
If he wanted to do this again today, technically he'd be against the guidelines in terms of length, but he'd probably get a free pass from CBS as long as everything else was addressed.
If someone were to make a feature-quality animated movie with professional animators, mocap and voice actors, it'd probably get itself flagged.
And a $250,000 price tag.
