DC Comics: Rebirth

[Nerys Myk]

I really like Dazzler. As for Black canary, she isn't a singer. Being a singer doesn't fit any version of Black Canary, from golden age to 2011. Like I said, making her a singer makes as much sense as making Batman a rapper

Guess you missed my edit. "Canary" is slang for a female singer. And what her name derives from. Again why doesn't it make sense? Just saying it, doesn't support it. Scarlet Witch was never a magic user until they made her one in the 70's. A sound based hero becoming a singer makes as much sense a hero with Witch in their name becoming an actual witch. Or a hero called the Falcon getting wings. Not seeing why its such a stretch.

Since she's never claimed to be one or shown to be one in any comic I've seen with her? Sure, she has the generic combat skills of every powerless vigilante, but pre-reboot she was able to match Lady Shiva, who was basically the best martial artist in the world. Now, the character is all about singing, and before that she was all about her dead husband, and before that she was just filler on that terrible New 52 Birds of Prey team.

If you haven't read the books you don't really know what the character is about or who she's fought. Her martial arts back ground was very much a part of the book when she was singing. So no, she wasn't all about being a singer in the Black Canary title. In fact she was never comfortable in role and that was part of the character and the plot.. But you'd know that, if you read the book.

PG got screwed over because all of her early New 52 appearances gave her really one personality: She liked to party and had lots of sex.

How did I miss that? Which books were those?

 

[Mr Light]

I refer to the New 52 Superman as emo because he's withdrawn, sullen, aggressive... he doesn't form human connections the way Old Clark did. He fell in love with an immortal goddess rather than a human being. He isn't the wise, moral leader of the DCU. He's not an unimpeachable authority that all the other heroes revere. Grant Morrison's run did the best with the character, but everything else? Gee-ungh.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I refer to the New 52 Superman as emo because he's withdrawn, sullen, aggressive... he doesn't form human connections the way Old Clark did. He fell in love with an immortal goddess rather than a human being. He isn't the wise, moral leader of the DCU. He's not an unimpeachable authority that all the other heroes revere. Grant Morrison's run did the best with the character, but everything else? Gee-ungh.

That's pretty much my issue with that version of the character too.

 

[kirk55555]

Guess you missed my edit. "Canary" is slang for a female singer. And what her name derives from. Again why doesn't it make sense? Just saying it, doesn't support it. Scarlet Witch was never a magic user until they made her one in the 70's. A sound based hero becoming a singer makes as much sense a hero with Witch in their name becoming an actual witch. Or a hero called the Falcon getting wings. Not seeing why its such a stretch.

By that logic a man calling himself The Flash should be going around showing his naked body to people, but somehow they never made Barry do that. It doesn't matter what the name derives from. Black Canary is not a singer. Never was, and as far as I'm concerned the real BC never will be. Its like how Nightwing isn't a bird and doesn't fly, or how Batman is not a half man half bat. The name Black Canary was never connected to singing. for decades it wasn't even connected to a super powered hero. She was never intended to be a singer in the Golden age, and Black Canary II wasn't given sound based powers to make her a singer.

Black canary doesn't sound like a singer name, at most it sounds like something you can twist into being a singer name, but it was obviously not the intention of any version of Black Canary up until around, what, 2014 or 2015. Hell, this singer version is as bad as Frank Miller's BC in All-Star Batman, and she was an irish ninja bartender whose only real goal in the story (which she accomplished) was to have sex with batman. She's about as legitimate a BC as the Dazzler rip off.

If you haven't read the books you don't really know what the character is about or who she's fought. Her martial arts back ground was very much a part of the book when she was singing. So no, she wasn't all about being a singer in the Black Canary title. In fact she was never comfortable in role and that was part of the character and the plot.. But you'd know that, if you read the book.

Why would I read the crappy book where a writer mistakes Black Canary for Dazzler, teams up with a terrible artist and craps out a few issues until the book is put to out of its misery? I've read enough garbage from DC to last several lifetimes. I can safely skip the destruction of another female DC hero. I've suffered through the character assassination of Starfire, Power Girl, Batgirl, Harley Quinn, etc. I drew the line at watching a hack destroy Black canary even more than the New 52 Birds of Prey and Team 7 (or whatever its called) did. Black Canary is not a singer, period. She also isn't more liberal then Green Arrow and isn't a person who would lecture him the way he lectured Hal jordan back in the day. I guess I need to get used to the fact that there is no version of Black Canary in the DC Universe, just some horrible new singer that DC slapped the BC name on. I probably won't make it more than an issue or two more into Green arrow if she sticks around. Its way too depressing to see how far the name has fallen.

How did I miss that? Which books were those?

It was her first appearances in the short lived Mr. Terrific (where she was sleeping with him to steal some of his stuff), and then the first several issues of the New 52 World's Finest, where she did have a goal of trying to get home but her only real character thing was sleeping around and getting called out on it by Huntress. Even the horrible Palmiotti/Connor combo didn't screw over PG as bad as the New 52 did.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Karen "Power Girl" Starr was a billionaire.

She was only stealing propriety technology that was not for sale.

 

[kirk55555]

Karen "Power Girl" Starr was a billionaire.

She was only stealing propriety technology that was not for sale.

She was also sleeping with a bunch of random people to the point where Huntress called her out on it, and its all the character stuff we get for PG for the first several issues of World's Finest. Well, that and the fact she wants to go home. Now, the real Power Girl would never sleep with someone to get something from them, its basically so against any version of the character its almost a FU to the writers who wrote for her before. I don't know too much about the Mr. Terrific book (I refused to read it when I read about how it used PG) but I sure as hell read World's Finest, to my ever lasting regret. The Mr. Terrific book introduced PG as someone sleeping her way to what she wants, then World's Finest made it worst. I'd put this PG stuff as being even worse then Giffen/DeMatteis's idiotic "Power Girl acts like a jerk because diet cola makes super heroines moody" storyline, and that was really, really bad.

It comes down to this. If you read PG in All-Star Comics, Infinity Inc, JSA, Justice Society of America (and the good story parts of justice League europe/International), the "sleeping her way to what she wants" and being the party girl who has a lot of sex stuff is basically the antithesis of the character. Even her bad solo book didn't make her into that kind of character.

 

[JD]

Sill not seeing why she couldn't become a singer. Does being a martial artist or spy somehow make that impossible? It was a slight detour in her life and connected to her quest to find out more about her past (specifically her mother). So not random Batman would become a rapper if needed to solve a case. He's a master of disguise and loves going undercover. MC Matches in the house.

Dazzler is already a crappy version of Dazzler, there's no room in that box. Dinah's more in the Lila Cheney range, anyway. It's amazing how limited your scope is. Black Canary sing. Dazzler sings. Therefore Black Canary is like Dazzler. Very small boxes in that head of your's.

Since when is this version of Black Canary not a master martial artist?

How is PG screwed over? She a Kryptonian and Superman's cousin. Would you like her to be an Atlantean again?

Why is she not much younger than that? You an expert on young girls now?

Well, it looks like Emiko isn't part of that plan, since she's in the new GA book. Your reactions aren't going to be everyone's. Some readers are continuing from the old series. Others might be new to the character. If you were expecting the previous series to be ignored, you're going to be disappointed. Not sure what you wanted. A new reader finds out Emiko is Oliver's sister. Her mother was a ninja assassin. She's a fan of Black Canary. Those of us who know the character aren't bombarded with tedious exposition. What else is needed?

Here's a challenge for you: Write a post without using mostly empty words like: garbage, stupid, idiotic or real. You know, the hyperbolic BS that renders your opinions moot.

ETA: You do realize that "Canary" is 30s/40s slang for a female singer and that's where the name comes from.

I haven't read the comics, so I don't how it's been handled, but in general I think the idea of turning her into a singer is pretty cool. It's so damn obvious given her name and powers, I'm honestly amazed it took 68 years for them to do it.

I really like Dazzler. As for Black canary, she isn't a singer. Being a singer doesn't fit any version of Black Canary, from golden age to 2011. Like I said, making her a singer makes as much sense as making Batman a rapper, or Soloman Grundy an evil break dancing zombie. They could technically do it, but it doesn't make sense for the character.



Since she's never claimed to be one or shown to be one in any comic I've seen with her? Sure, she has the generic combat skills of every powerless vigilante, but pre-reboot she was able to match Lady Shiva, who was basically the best martial artist in the world. Now, the character is all about singing, and before that she was all about her dead husband, and before that she was just filler on that terrible New 52 Birds of Prey team.



No. PG got screwed over because all of her early New 52 appearances gave her really one personality: She liked to party and had lots of sex. She really got nothing more until maybe 4-5 issues into World's Finest. She eventually got a bit of personality in the Earth 2, but its very bland. Nothing like the pre-reboot version. Not as bad as Sex-goldfish Starfire, but still another horrible change to a female hero by DC's New 52.

Hasn't the Palmiotti/Conner series been doing a lot to repair the situation with Stafire?
Kirk5x5, you just hate any change no matter what is is, don't you? Just because something has been changed doesn't automatically make it worse.

 

[kirk55555]

I haven't read the comics, so I don't how it's been handled, but in general I think the idea of turning her into a singer is pretty cool. It's so damn obvious given her name and powers, I'm honestly amazed it took 68 years for them to do it.

Its not actually obvious. The name has nothing to do with singing. It had nothing to do with any sound for decades, and then it was just a screaming power. I've read a lot of pre-reboot Black Canary. Her character would never have been a singer, it just doesn't fit. Like I said before, batman would become a rapper before Black canary became a singer. Until the Flash starts showing people his junk, the name of a DC hero won't justify stupid, barely connected personality and job changes. No version of Black Canary would be a singer, and I'm including the New 52 version up until about 2014 in that. It makes no sense. But, this is New 52 DC. Zatanna is a magical stripper, the Amazon's are murderers and rapists, and Starfire literally has sex with any guy with a heartbeat, then immediately forgets they exist when they leave her line of sight. So, yeah, this is the only context where Black canary would ever be a singer, when DC goes out of its way to ruin every female character in its roster to appease angsty Teenage boys.

Hasn't the Palmiotti/Conner series been doing a lot to repair the situation with Stafire?
Kirk5x5, you just hate any change no matter what is is, don't you? Just because something has been changed doesn't automatically make it worse.

In the New 52, it does. But, its a bit BS to say "You dislike some things, so you hate change". I hate almost everything the New 52 did, but that just means I hate the New 52. I mean, yeah, I don't support huge character changes in general. I want to read about the characters I like. Black Canary isn't a singer. Starfire isn't a sex goldfish. Barbara Gordon can't walk, and even when she could she wasn't both a teenager and 21 at the same time and certainly didn't do generic college stuff. Marvel has a lot of stupid stuff too, but at least Marvel generally goes back to normal eventually. If I wait a few years, Steve rogers won't be a Nazi and the real Thor will get his hammer and name back. Even with Rebirth, DC loves to keep its stupidity going until it decides on the next full reboot.

As for Starfire, Palmiotti/Connor are incapable of fixing anything. They're hacks who ruined Harley Quinn and wrote a terrible Power Girl (not as bad as the New 52, but still very bad). I doubt they could fix Scott Lobdell's gabage, because they're almost as bad as him to begin with. Its like saying someone will "fix" a forest fire by dropping napalm on it.

 

[TheSeeker]

If I wait a few years, Steve rogers won't be a Nazi and the real Thor will get his hammer and name back.

So if you know all this why not approach the new material with an open mind and try to enjoy it? Different doesn't automatically mean bad. I think the current run on Thor is very entertaining and while I am not crazy about the Hydra angle for Captain America, I am sure there is a method to their madness.

 

[Nerys Myk]

By that logic a man calling himself The Flash should be going around showing his naked body to people, but somehow they never made Barry do that. I

Never heard the "phrase back in a flash"? A flash means doing something real quick. So there is no need to make a leap to nudity to make the name work. It already works. You might want to think a little more before hitting send.

The name Black Canary was never connected to singing. for decades it wasn't even connected to a super powered hero. She was never intended to be a singer in the Golden age, and Black Canary II wasn't given sound based powers to make her a singer.

What do you think a canary is? A bird. A bird noted for singing ( look up canary in a coal mine). So she has a name associated with a bird known for singing. Not much of a leap to have her sing. She was given sound based powers to give her name a little "truth'. And it was Balck Canary I that was given the Canary Cry. I just read the JLA issue were it happend. Black Canary II is a retcon almost on the level of Wonder Girl and Power Girl, but not quite at Hawkman levels of

Black canary doesn't sound like a singer name, at most it sounds like something you can twist into being a singer name, but it was obviously not the intention of any version of Black Canary up until around, what, 2014 or 2015.

What's a "singer name"? Gee, I dunno. Maybe a name based on a bird noted for singing? Or a slang term for a female singer popular in the 1940s ( by "coincidence" the era BC was created) Or a name for a character with sound based power? Because singing is sound.

Why would I read the crappy book where a writer mistakes Black Canary for Dazzler, teams up with a terrible artist and craps out a few issues until the book is put to out of its misery?

Gee, maybe so you can talk about it's content with some level of believability and veracity rather than your usual hyperbolic empty phrases.

 

[Nerys Myk]

JLofA #75. Black Canary is about to use her power for the second time.

She actually calls it singing

 

[Saga]

i don't get why 5s has such an issue with this. what, do you have a problem with Black Widow being a ballerina too?

 

[Snaploud]

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[JD]

Its not actually obvious. The name has nothing to do with singing. It had nothing to do with any sound for decades, and then it was just a screaming power. I've read a lot of pre-reboot Black Canary. Her character would never have been a singer, it just doesn't fit. Like I said before, batman would become a rapper before Black canary became a singer. Until the Flash starts showing people his junk, the name of a DC hero won't justify stupid, barely connected personality and job changes. No version of Black Canary would be a singer, and I'm including the New 52 version up until about 2014 in that. It makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense, she is named after a bird and has a sound based power. It doesn't just make sense, it's pretty fucking obvious.

But, this is New 52 DC. Zatanna is a magical stripper, the Amazon's are murderers and rapists, and Starfire literally has sex with any guy with a heartbeat, then immediately forgets they exist when they leave her line of sight. So, yeah, this is the only context where Black canary would ever be a singer, when DC goes out of its way to ruin every female character in its roster to appease angsty Teenage boys.

]

Sure, some of those changes are stupid, but just because they've made some mistakes doesn't automatically make every change bad.

In the New 52, it does. But, its a bit BS to say "You dislike some things, so you hate change". I hate almost everything the New 52 did, but that just means I hate the New 52. I mean, yeah, I don't support huge character changes in general. I want to read about the characters I like. Black Canary isn't a singer. Starfire isn't a sex goldfish. Barbara Gordon can't walk, and even when she could she wasn't both a teenager and 21 at the same time and certainly didn't do generic college stuff. Marvel has a lot of stupid stuff too, but at least Marvel generally goes back to normal eventually. If I wait a few years, Steve rogers won't be a Nazi and the real Thor will get his hammer and name back. Even with Rebirth, DC loves to keep its stupidity going until it decides on the next full reboot.

I thought the Batgirl of Burnside stuff was supposed to be really good, other than the whole transgender character controversy? I'm not asking about your opinion I'm asking about the overall general response.

As for Starfire, Palmiotti/Connor are incapable of fixing anything. They're hacks who ruined Harley Quinn and wrote a terrible Power Girl (not as bad as the New 52, but still very bad). I doubt they could fix Scott Lobdell's gabage, because they're almost as bad as him to begin with. Its like saying someone will "fix" a forest fire by dropping napalm on it.

Once again, I'm not asking about your opinion, I'm asking about the overall general opinion. What about their Harley Quinn series, I thought it was supposed to be good? Again looking for the overall opinion, not yours Kirk.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I thought the Batgirl of Burnside stuff was supposed to be really good, other than the whole transgender character controversy? I'm not asking about your opinion I'm asking about the overall general response.

The general response, based the the reviews I've read, have been positive. 5's take as usual, is his own take on the series and also as usual mostly wrong. Barbara isn't a teenager or 21. She's doing post grad work ( possibly post doc, I don't recall exactly) at college and by the end of the series has started a tech company. So not quite "college" stuff.

His not liking change is ironic, Barbara being paralyzed was a major change for the character. The Batgirl I grew up with was a librarian with the full use of her legs. I guess characters can't change from when he "met" the character. What went before doesn't count.

Once again, I'm not asking about your opinion, I'm asking about the overall general opinion. What about their Harley Quinn series, I thought it was supposed to be good? Again looking for the overall opinion, not yours Kirk.

The Harley books have gotten good reviews too. But they aren't really my cup of tea. Its goofy over the top fun and violence.

 

[JD]

Oh, I can see where it's not for everyone. I picked up the first collection of the Harley solo book, and it looks like it's right up my alley.

 

[theenglish]

Regarding Kirk55555's comments, I agree with the previous posters that it seems he only accepts "his" version of the characters, not the versions that came before or after. That's fine. I still have a fondness for the mid seventies to mid eighties in both DC and Marvel. He can be a little "overenthusiastic" in expressing his opinions but I empathize somewhat with his point of view. I remember COIE and the aftermath being my end to reading comics for basically twenty years. I followed the Death of Superman story and even started buying The Spectre run of the time as well as a few other titles. That was when I started reading Sandman and Hellblazer. Other than the latter two titles I stopped around Zero Hour because it messed with my characters even further. I can imagine myself posting on message boards, if they had existed, vile rants and vitriol. I'm sure many of us have been there at one time or another.

 

[JD]

That's understandable, but for someone who's new to comics it can be hard to tell at times what is actually considered bad by people in general, and what is just his opinion.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That's understandable, but for someone who's new to comics it can be hard to tell at times what is actually considered bad by people in general, and what is just his opinion.

It's all opinion ( except for Rob Lefield being a horrible artist, that's a stone cold fact ) I want opinions that are informed and articulate. Not, this is idiotic. This is crap. This is stupid. Tell my why!

 

[JD]

Oh sure, but if one opinion seems to be the majority, then it's pretty likely that I'll agree. Hell, even though I decided it wasn't for me, I won't deny that Saga was a very well made comic. Just because I decided it was to explicit for me, that doesn't mean I'm going to start saying that's it's bad, it's not bad at all, I just don't like it.