Gene Roddenbury's Vision Is Probably Not Realistic Enough to Be in Our Future

[Marsden]

I don't know if it's Gene's vision, but I think it's already starting.

Look at 1966, who wasn't waiting for the Soviet Union to invade Western Europe and start the third world war? Europe was heavily armed with a huge iron curtain down the middle. And there would be nuclear exchanges, no doubt.

Now, only 50 years later, there's a European Union. And even though Russia is touted as a boogyman for reasons, it's not a monster waiting to destroy us all. There is a great deal of United Earth already being promulgated, and those peoples that don' t like it are really in a minority. Unfortunately that minority has a lot of guns and will to use them but eventually that will pass, too.

 

[Vance]

He was a citizen, yes, but he was mired in Jihadi culture and NOT raised with Western values. That's not even in dispute...

But, again, look at what you're doing. You know that Westboro is a microscopic amount of people that nearly all Christians have openly stood against. But your desire to point to them and say 'See? Christians are just as bad as Jhiadis' is PART OF THE PROBLEM.

You want a tolerant future? You want to see the dreams realized? You cannot do it through hate, no matter how justified you may consider that hate.

 

[BillJ]

You want a tolerant future? You want to see the dreams realized? You cannot do it through hate, no matter how justified you may consider that hate.

So we shouldn't recognize that we live in a violent and hateful culture? A culture where huge groups see the butchering of 50 people who are different as no big deal. There's no clear path to "Roddenberry's Future" without acknowledging the problems in the here and now.

 

[Vance]

We are now done with this conversation, BillJ. I can honestly see now way to reason with you, because it's clear that you're invested in your own hate and nihilism. If Trek's vision ever does come to pass, it will be despite people like you, not because of them.

 

[BillJ]

We are now done with this conversation, BillJ. I can honestly see now way to reason with you, because it's clear that you're invested in your own hate and nihilism. If Trek's vision ever does come to pass, it will be despite people like you, not because of them.

I love how it is "hate" when you question Christians and their beliefs.

 

[TwoJakes]

You do realize that the shooter was an American citizen?

Who twice traveled to Saudi Arabia and was a follower of ISIS. His influances were his homophobic father and the idology of a non-American culture.

 

[BillJ]

Who twice traveled to Saudi Arabia and was a follower of ISIS. His influances were his homophobic father and the idology of a non-American culture.

Okay? But did he really need overseas influence to hate Gay people?

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[The Wormhole]

brought to you by a foreign culture centered on hate..

Islamic culture does not center on hate. They preach peace and love and unity just like most of the other major religions around the world. ISIS is not representative of Islamic values, regardless if "Islamic" is part of the name.

 

[Vance]

Islamic culture does not center on hate. They preach peace and love and unity just like most of the other major religions around the world. ISIS is not representative of Islamic values, regardless if "Islamic" is part of the name.

The culture that the shooter was raised under was Afghani Jihadic culture, which is quite violent and quite hateful. I did not once say 'all of Islam'. Please quit trying to virtue-signal against me. Rushing to chide and lecture people about Islam just to score some 'internet cultural sensitivity points' does neither you nor Islam any favors.

 

[1001001]

Okay folks. Everyone take a deep breath. This is a difficult, challenging situation. I understand why it would come up in this thread, but let's not get personal.

There are threads in Misc and TNZ discussing the killings in Orlando, if you want to pursue that part of the discussion.

Thanks.

 

[Marsden]

I want to purse the part of the discussion where I pointed out the likelihood of old enemies like France and Germany going to war again are nil. Not the only way it can happen but that was at the heart of both world wars.

Also, the statistics for violent death are the lowest at any point in history. And the statistics for oppressive poverty and starvation are also improving. These don't mean that these don't exist anymore, but they are much less than they once were and when it does happen, people respond against it.

 

[Push The Button]

As long as there are significant numbers of ignorant, greedy people in the world, it will never change for the better. We don't need the Vulcans to show us the way, we all need to become Vulcans and uplift ourselves for the common good.

 

[TwoJakes]

( Hope this doesn't violate 1001001 prohibition )

So we shouldn't recognize that we live in a violent and hateful culture?

I don't think we do, we live in a world with "violent and hateful" elements in it. But those elements do not define the majority of people who make up the Human population, most of whom just want to live their lives in peace and with personal freedom.

 

[Iamnotspock]

It was Berman-Era Trek to have the Vulcans take us under their wing??

Yes. It's an Enterprise development, as TwoJakes said.

Oh yeah, they had a TOS episode where the original U.S.S. Enterprise met Zefram Cochrane.

I'm not sure what you're saying here? Yes they did, but that had nothing to do with the Vulcans. At one point, Cochrane says to Spock, "You're Vulcan aren't you?"

Didn't they basically scrap the TOS Zefram Cochrane?

Yes, not that there was much to go on anyway.

 

[Nerys Myk]

As long as there are significant numbers of ignorant, greedy people in the world, it will never change for the better. We don't need the Vulcans to show us the way, we all need to become Vulcans and uplift ourselves for the common good.

If Star Trek has taught us anything, it's that Vulcan is not the way.

 

[TwoJakes]

If Star Trek has taught us anything, it's that Vulcan is not the way.

It's strange, the fandom of the 1970's had the Vulcans as these fantastic people, who were invested with many positive attributes, very calm and logical.

As Star Trek progressed through later series, the Vulcan's changed into (basically) dirtbags.

Didn't they basically scrap the TOS Zefram Cochrane?

Not really, the first time we saw Cochrane he had been living alone (other than the companion) for 150 years. While he could communicate at some level, my impression is than he couldn't actually talk to her.

Plus there were many decades between the time of FC and when he went into isolation.

Early Cochrane wasn't scraped, it was simply that he was changed.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

If you haven't watched Shatner's "Chaos on the Bridge" Documentary, you should. It is very enlightening and entertaining.

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[BillJ]

As Star Trek progressed through later series, the Vulcan's changed into (basically) dirtbags.

If you watch "Amok Time" and "Journey to Babel", you'll find they were always dirtbags.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's strange, the fandom of the 1970's had the Vulcans as these fantastic people, who were invested with many positive attributes, very calm and logical.

As Star Trek progressed through later series, the Vulcan's changed into (basically) dirtbags.

Vulcans were always dirtbags. See T'Pring and Stonn. 70's fandom (which includes me) totally missed the point.

 

[Kor]

It's strange, the fandom of the 1970's had the Vulcans as these fantastic people, who were invested with many positive attributes, very calm and logical.

As Star Trek progressed through later series, the Vulcan's changed into (basically) dirtbags.

I don't understand the hero worship of classic Vulcans. Vulcans in TOS were arrogant, prejudiced and petty, using logic to justify it. Spock was the ideal, noble Vulcan who we all look up to. And he wasn't even full Vulcan.

Edit: @BillJ and @Nerys Myk already said it.

Kor