Alan Moore is gonna be pissed. Then again, he always seems to be anyway...
DC Comics: Rebirth
- Thread starter theenglish
- Start date
I think it is still the New 52 and we are just seeing the beginning of it morphing into something new.
I imagine all the Rebirth one shots will play a big part. And as others have said, I think the whole story is going to unfold in all of DC's titles over the next few years.
I have the same question as Son of Mogh upthread. This universe contains a number of elements that have not been present in the new 52. Ray Palmer works with SHADE and sometimes ARGUS. He's not a university professor. Although there is nothing stopping the introduction of Ted Kord into the universe, he hasn't been introduced prior to this. It seems like something has already been put in motion and the universe is in flux.
Personally, I think the story is meant to critique how messed up the new 52 already is. If you just go by how messed up the continuity is between titles (see my Justice League comment below) and the fact that none of the characters seem to notice or care then the argument can already be made the universe is completely fractured.
Regarding introducing the Watchmen. The meta aspect of this really blows my mind. The Watchmen were originally a critique of the state of comic books at the time. Like TDKR it then became the model mainstream comics tried to emulate. More mature stories, more grit, more darkness. Now, it seems as if The Watchmen were responsible for this "in universe" as well as in the real world. I also get the distinct impression that Johns is subtly critiquing how messed up editorial is at DC right now.
Personally, I think the story is meant to critique how messed up the new 52 already is. If you just go by how messed up the continuity is between titles (see my Justice League comment below) and the fact that none of the characters seem to notice or care then the argument can already be made the universe is completely fractured.
Regarding introducing the Watchmen. The meta aspect of this really blows my mind. The Watchmen were originally a critique of the state of comic books at the time. Like TDKR it then became the model mainstream comics tried to emulate. More mature stories, more grit, more darkness. Now, it seems as if The Watchmen were responsible for this "in universe" as well as in the real world. I also get the distinct impression that Johns is subtly critiquing how messed up editorial is at DC right now.
I agree with the posters that the lack of connection with the greater DC universe really damages the impact of the story. I complained about this earlier so just to sum up, many characters have their plot lines completely ignored. OA still exists even though it's been destroyed for a while now, Superman still has his powers, Batman is how he was prior to Endgame. If you were to try to place this within a larger continuity: it would have to be before the Relic story in GL but after Johns run, before the Superman Vandal Savage story in those books (Wonder Woman still has her old costume as well), prior to Endgame in Batman, after WW becomes the God of War but before the events following Convergence, etc.
I am fine with having a good story set outside of continuity, but with Rebirth it seems as if the Darkseid War is definitely a part of continuity.
I am fine with having a good story set outside of continuity, but with Rebirth it seems as if the Darkseid War is definitely a part of continuity.
I did really enjoy how Rebirth was one massive take down of the New 52. But I find it bizarre because Geoff Johns and Jim Lee CREATED THE NEW 52. Did they realize the err of their ways? Were they forced into the reboot by larger forces? I did find it surprising how Geoff Johns, ostensibly in creative control of the DCU, jettisoned so much legacy and continuity his books have always been a love letter to...
Johns and Lee were the point men, but word from on high came down from Didio and the WB execs. The DC sales were in the toilet back in 2010-2011 and Didio was told to fix it. So reboot. Release a series of #1 to create a jumping on point for new readers.
Another observations from this week's DC releases.
Did anyone else notice that Lana Lang also got hit by the energy released from Superman's body as he died? It wasn't just Lois. I wonder if that has any significance or if that's just they way the artist drew it.
Why not? Manhattan has been around since the '80s too.
Yes, but popular belief is that DC didn't start getting dark until after rebuilding the universe on the corpse of the multiverse that came before.[/spolier]
I'd probably give a crap about the legacy if a decent chunk of it didn't come from being tacked onto DC's main universe in 1986.
As a child of the 90s, the Pre-Crisis continuity means very little to me, personally...
And comic book continuity in general means very little to me, I personally think they should have completely rebooted and told the nay sayers "theres the door".
I'm most;y just getting annoyed with the constant hyperbolic crap about the New 52 being hopeless and joyless that is in all likely hood coming from people just but hurt that their precious continuity got scraped.
I didn't care for the New 52 on the whole. The late 90s / 2000s is "my" continuity, so I'm happy to see more of it coming back. Aside from the perfection that was Snyder's Batman and portions of Johns' Justice League, I didn't find much in the past few years to gush over. I miss the old world with hundreds of heroes in a legacy of continuity and different generations.
That would imply heroes getting replaced by new versions in a some what permanent manor. DC usually had the old guys come back and shove the new guys in the back ground. And the JSA kind of makes things stop making sense when you think about it.
I'm still not convinced that the new Superman is entirely gone. I actually liked the new 52 quite a bit at first, but there was never any attempt to truly flesh out the new world in which our characters were set. I also don't think that the spirit of the new 52 was much different than what existed previously. What killed the attempt for me was all the abandoned story lines that looked like they were actually leading somewhere in the beginning.
The alien invasion in Grifter that also was hinted at in the Superman and other comics. The importance of Pandora to the creation of the new world. Whatever the Trinity War was actually supposed to have been. There seems to have been plans to actually have the Darkseid War set up as an event that never came to fruition. And there were many chances to reintroduce the "legacy" heroes but nothing ever came of it. What happened with Booster Gold? What happened to the Legion? Furthermore, at first there was too much stress on continuity between the books and then by the time Forever Evil came around there was not enough.
There was nothing wrong with the new Superman, other than that ugly high collar. He had a number of really good story arcs and the supporting cast was actually rebooted quite nicely. It was good to see Lois in an independent role where she was Superman's friend but not his girlfriend.
In short, the new 52 was not so much a creative failure as an editorial failure, not a creative one. The fault lies either with Didio or with those behind closed doors issuing him directives.
The alien invasion in Grifter that also was hinted at in the Superman and other comics. The importance of Pandora to the creation of the new world. Whatever the Trinity War was actually supposed to have been. There seems to have been plans to actually have the Darkseid War set up as an event that never came to fruition. And there were many chances to reintroduce the "legacy" heroes but nothing ever came of it. What happened with Booster Gold? What happened to the Legion? Furthermore, at first there was too much stress on continuity between the books and then by the time Forever Evil came around there was not enough.
There was nothing wrong with the new Superman, other than that ugly high collar. He had a number of really good story arcs and the supporting cast was actually rebooted quite nicely. It was good to see Lois in an independent role where she was Superman's friend but not his girlfriend.
In short, the new 52 was not so much a creative failure as an editorial failure, not a creative one. The fault lies either with Didio or with those behind closed doors issuing him directives.
I've found things to enjoy about all the continuities. And I go back to the PreCrisis days, around the end of the Silver Age and the dawn of the Bronze Age. Multiple Earths were fun and I built my JLA collection around the JLA-JSA team ups. Loved the JSA. All-Star Comics, All-Star Squadron and Infinity Inc were my version of heaven. Sad to see Earth-2 go in COIE. Post Crisis, the Byrne Superman, the Perez Wonder Woman and the Giffen/DeMatttis Justice League were highlights. And of course Vertigo. Just what a comic fan in his twenties needed. Sandman is still a masterpiece and the Doom Patrol a trip. The New 52's highlights were Azerello's Wonder Woman, Morrison's Superman, Snyder's Batman and the Batgirl Burnside. Looking forward to Titans by Abnett because I'm a Titans fan going back to the Haney and Cardy days, Rucka on Wonder Woman has me intrigued as well, What form the JSA will take has me cautiously optimistic. The Batbooks seem to be in good hands, but I'm not too crazy about Pre-52 Superman taking the Supertitles. Husband and father Supes isn't where I want the character.
I'm a 2000s guy when it comes to when I got fully into comics, but I love most eras. Outside of the Dark Age part of the 90s and the New 52 reboot era of DC, there really isn't an era of comics where I can't find a lot to love. Rebirth is what I've wanted for years from DC. It won't bring back all I loved about DC that disappeared in 2011, but its a good change.
We're getting the good Superman back as the main Superman, and we're getting a version of the JSA back, probably. There is more I want (old Captain Marvel, Harley Quinn and Power Girl being on the top of the list, with a lot of other lesser known characters as well), but I never thought DC would bring back this much, at least not for the next decade or more.
We're getting the good Superman back as the main Superman, and we're getting a version of the JSA back, probably. There is more I want (old Captain Marvel, Harley Quinn and Power Girl being on the top of the list, with a lot of other lesser known characters as well), but I never thought DC would bring back this much, at least not for the next decade or more.
Same here. Byrne's Superman and Perez's Wonder Woman are what made me a fan.
I was a big fan of the Azerello run on Wonder Woman and Snyder's run on Batman, but I couldn't stand Morrison's run on Superman. I was glad when it was over.I also really liked the early issues of Earth-2 and World'd Finest but they seemed to lose their focus at the end.
Lee and Harras were the point men for Nu52. They were the ones that had plans for Pandora and who dreamed up a crossover with the Wildstorm elements that had been incorporated into the Nu52 (which was never implemented after those books went into the toilet and were cancelled). You can pretty much chart the demise of that crossover with the diminishing forced appearances of the daemonites (barring Future's End). But Johns was absolutely not an architect for Nu52. His people on Firestorm and Hawkman were fired and their proposals tossed into the garbage. Snyder and Lemire only kept their jobs on Swamp Thing and Animal Man because DC had to have Karen Berger sign off on those books. Nu52 screwed with Johns longtime plans for the DCU. He was at best towing the company line by taking the Justice League job, but he was absolutely not some point man. His influence at DCU actually dropped after Nu52.
Rebirth killing Pandora is equivalent of Johns middle finger to all the Nu52. But it 's very clear now that he has disliked Nu52 for some time but has been massively passive aggressive airing his grievances.
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I would add to that that Johns never intended Flashpoint to reboot the DCU as it did. His story was hijacked to serve an entirely different purpose, which I suspect is why there's a bit of dialogue in the Rebirth special how Flashpoint didn't cause the DCU to go dark like it did.
I like how everyone keeps acting like DC hasn't been some what dark for years.