Game Of Thrones Season 6 Discussion (Spoilers)

[Claudia]

I don't think Sansa trusts Littlefinger or will even act as his "apprentice"/puppet ever again. Loved that confrontation. And I don't think that Sansa doesn't trust Jon - rather, I gather that she feels safe for the first time in quite a while. But this omission of just where she got her information, together with Arya watching that play has me wonder just how much the various protagonists know about each other. Does Jon for example know how Sansa became Ramsay's wife, i.e. of Littlefinger's machinations? I mean, even if they didn't really look eye to eye in their childhood, Sansa's still his (half-)sister... and would he actually sit by and let the one who knowingly sent her to unspeakable torment live? I think that Sansa actually has a better grasp on the politics and mentality of the North than Jon, and she knows that she might need that army of Littlefinger's at some point.

Arya's storyline still feels quite disconnected from the rest - maybe that play woke her up again to the broader scheme of things. And where exactly are Daenerys' dragons? Are 2 still in the dungeons, although Tyrion unchained them? And the one that flew her out of the pit? Where's he gone off to?

Speaking of season 6 in general, it feels much faster paced than season 5 so far, as though everything's slowly coming together. First there'll be the battle for the north at the end of this season (and hopefully the Harpies, Sparrows and the Dorne-women will be a thing of the past by then), then Daenerys will finally (after many more detours...) arrive in Westeros (with her dragons eating those priestesses for breakfast, I hope), the Lannisters will get their due, it remains to be seen whether the Nightwalkers will arrive at the Wall before or after the question of who's the rightful king will be solved.

 

[Icemizer]

Come on Claudia this is Game of Thrones there will be no happy endings for our characters. The Walkers win in the end and Bran and a small group of survivors are all that is left.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I don't think Sansa trusts Littlefinger or will even act as his "apprentice"/puppet ever again. Loved that confrontation. And I don't think that Sansa doesn't trust Jon - rather, I gather that she feels safe for the first time in quite a while. But this omission of just where she got her information, together with Arya watching that play has me wonder just how much the various protagonists know about each other. Does Jon for example know how Sansa became Ramsay's wife, i.e. of Littlefinger's machinations?

That's a good question and I've bee wondering about another possibility: Does Jon know who Littlefinger is at all? Is he aware of Littlefinger's reputation? Perhaps Sansa didn't say who her actual source is because she doesn't know whether or not anyone in that room are aware how untrustworthy Littlefinger can be with his machinations in general?

 

[Hugo Rune]

I theorize that Dany will cross the ocean, help in pushing back the Others and then be turned upon by Westeros as she falls into full-on "It's all mine, kill them before they get me" mode.

Leaving Sansa on the Throne after being first crowned Queen of the North.

Jon will die, be brought back, die, be brought back, to the point where he is unrecognisable to those that love him and he marches off Beyond the Wall to live a solitary life.

Bran will become a tree, helping guide Westeros through the next Long Winter after The Others are forced back into The Lands of Always Winter for another 8,000 years.

Odds on Dany's assassination by either the hired "Girl" (Arya) or by Tyrion joining his brother in regicide after Dany begins to revel in her megalomania and madness (like her father).

Edit - An interview with the shows producers over at EW reveals that GRRM handed out three "Holy Shit" moments to them about books 6/7. Hodor's origins being one of them, Shireen's death being another and the third coming at the very end. They also confirm that the divergence between their show and books 6/7 could be very big, giving readers more surprises than expected.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/24/george-rr-martin-3-twists-game-thrones

Interesting about Shireen as I recall many people decrying the moment as being nothing more than "TV shock value" given how much had been invested in her.

Arya killing Dany is now my go-to "Holy Shit" finale moment


Hugo - it's all circular and bitter-sweet

 

[The Nth Doctor]

In a way, I wish we didn't find out about the three "holy shit moments" because now everyone is going to spend the next couple of years trying to guess what the finale "holy shit moment" is to the point it will no longer be shocking when we find out whatever it is.

 

[SalvorHardin]

They also confirm that the divergence between their show and books 6/7 could be very big, giving readers more surprises than expected.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/24/george-rr-martin-3-twists-game-thrones

I'm really looking forward to seeing what the surprises are, sometime around 2040.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

We know there's no chance of a happy ending but I doubt it'd be as simple as 'The walkers win' either. Neither extreme would be satisfying.

What I expect is a bitter, transformational victory for the human side.

The walkers are defeated, the wheel of dynasties is broken, but not quite in a way any of the characters were going for and with a huge body count.

 

[Cyrus]

So Hodor is not going to be the king. Ramsey still has a chance, or maybe Sam

 

[Klaus]

...anyone who'd be shocked by an out-of-the-blue death at the end of the series hasn't been paying attention.

 

[EmoBorg]

Hodor's end was done beautifully. He died a hero and a pure hearted one at that.
Jorah Mormont leaving to look for the cure after Dany ordered him to do so was also a beautifully sad scene.

To be honest Arya's current story seem to have no connection at all with the rest of current situation and i feel the least interested in it among all the storylines. Maybe her story will come to bear later on.

The reveal that the Children created the Night King from a captured human reminds me of the story of how Morgoth corrupted captured elves into becoming the first orcs in the Silmarillion.

Meera Reed killing the WW with a spear to the neck was a scene that i liked. I also wonder if there are anymore Children of the forest around. Four were killed at the end but in the flashback scene, there were at least six.

I guess the Night King was pissed at the Children for murdering him. With his powers to make a wright army out of those he kill, he decided to be the next ruler of Westeros. A ruler of the dead.

I would love to have seen his backstory when he was a human.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

In a way, I wish we didn't find out about the three "holy shit moments" because now everyone is going to spend the next couple of years trying to guess what the finale "holy shit moment" is to the point it will no longer be shocking when we find out whatever it is.

Well, since we're doing it anyway...

My theory is that our Bran warged into an ancestor of his in the past and became known as Bran the Builder, constructing the Wall to protect Westeros from the White Walkers. It seems as if the time travel on the show is a closed loop and you can't influence anything that wasn't already "destined" to happen anyway. So he can't stop the creation of the White Walkers, but he can contain them in the northern wastes until a method of defeating them presents itself.

Also along those lines is the theory that Bran was warging into the Mad King during which time there was an as yet unseen attack of the White Walkers, and Aerys overhearing someone saying "Burn them all!" in regards to fighting the White Walker's zombie horde made him start crazily saying "Burn them all! Burn them all! Burn them all!" in his final moments, which prompted Jaime to kill him.

Anyway, this was a great episode with some awesome reveals, and I hope they can keep it up.

Poor Hodor. That made me tear up. Hopefully, as said above, Bran can warg into him as a wight to gain intelligence and/or sabotage the enemy, and eventually give him the peace of a final death.

I agree with the others who said that Sansa's reasoning for lying to Jon about Littlefinger being the source of the information about the Blackfish was not because she distrusts Jon, but because she was worried that Jon would make the pragmatic decision and use Littlefinger's forces from the Vale to retake Winterfell. Sansa knows how untrustworthy Baelish really is now, so she didn't want him worming his way into their lives again or using his assistance as leverage to force Jon or her to do something they didn't want.

I can't get enough of Tormund and Brienne. What are we calling them? Brund? Tornne? Briemund? Torienne? I smell a sitcom in their future: Big People, Little World. And I mean I literally smell it. Everyone is gigantic and hairy and sweaty and wearing heavy armor and thick furs and only bathe once a month.

 

[Skywalker]

There used to be many children of the forest, back in the ancient days before the First Men entered Westeros. By the time of the books/show they'd all but retreated from the lands south of the Wall, but occasionally one will venture out to explore the world of men (one of the children, Leaf, did this in the books). I get the sense that they're all but extinct now.

As for who the Night King was before he was changed, he was probably just some random First Man that the children captured in battle.

 

[Xerxes82]

I agree with the others who said that Sansa's reasoning for lying to Jon about Littlefinger being the source of the information about the Blackfish was not because she distrusts Jon, but because she was worried that Jon would make the pragmatic decision and use Littlefinger's forces from the Vale to retake Winterfell. Sansa knows how untrustworthy Baelish really is now, so she didn't want him worming his way into their lives again or using his assistance as leverage to force Jon or her to do something they didn't want.

I get why people think this, I do. But I don't agree, at all. Jon has always been shown as being willing to do things the hard way, the unpopular way, if it's what's right. Damn attitude got him killed, sure. And maybe he'd do things differently now, but I really doubt it. All Sansa has to do is tell him about Littlefinger and he won't turn to him as an ally. He would rather go in undermanned than get help from someone like that.

Which is why I don't think that's at all why Sansa held it back. Seriously folks, the writers didn't throw in that Littlefinger/Sansa discussion for nothing. The implication that Sansa would need an army of her own, for whatever purpose, which is not loyal to her brother but to her? That's not some random dialogue for shits and giggles. And why would she need troops of her own? For what purpose other than defending her rights or safety? And against whom is she going to be defending them? If Jon loses to Ramsey, the leftovers of Riverrun's army aren't going to save Sansa, so clearly the implication is that she'll need them when Jon WINS.

Also, I'm not saying Jon is going to try and assume power himself. Not his style, for one thing. But all that's needed is the WORRY that he might.

And hell, the catalyst could be something else entirely. Maybe Jon does the damnable Stark thing of doing the right thing even when he should know better, and it undercuts Sansa's goals in some way. But at least the TEASE of conflict is on the horizon.

Also, Sansa's every experience has been about hardening her, about showing her the cynical underbelly of life in Westeros. Everyone seems entirely too ready to accept her as the typical Stark goody-goody just because of her name. Sure, she's been reunited with her family. But her family couldn't protect her the first time, recall.

Could be wrong, certainly wouldn't be the first time. But the sinister vibes were a thing. And a betrayal at this point of the game, of this nature, is very, very much GRRM. Not to mention more than soapy enough for the TV producers.

Though it's been fun stirring up the conversation. I don't often get to do that.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I think to acquire a potential answer to this, we need to roll back to last season, in the Winterfell crypts, when Littlefinger implied to Sansa that all was not as it seemed with her Aunt Lyanna's death and her involvement with Rhaegar. This implies that Littlefinger may be the only one left alive in the world who is aware of Jon's true parentage and lineage. Once Jon knows this as well (the only way he could is from Bran after his green-seer flashbacks), this could change the strategic layout of all armies in the north and, eventually, the rest of Westeros. It could also negatively impact Dany's claim to the Iron Throne, close to the end.

Question is, after being LC at Castle Black, will Jon WANT to be a leader any more? If I were him, I'd bloody well retire in a quiet corner somewhere across the Narrow Sea in the warm Free Cities and never set foot on Westerosi dirt ever again.

 

[dahj]

In a way, I wish we didn't find out about the three "holy shit moments" because now everyone is going to spend the next couple of years trying to guess what the finale "holy shit moment" is to the point it will no longer be shocking when we find out whatever it is.

I doubt it will have much of an effect.
Most people expect a not-straightforward ending so this isn't exactly news and there's already so much speculation, I don't think the increase in speculation will be noticeable.

This implies that Littlefinger may be the only one left alive in the world who is aware of Jon's true parentage and lineage.

Howland Reed is alive.

 

[TheSeeker]

When Tormund saw Brienne, you could hear "Dream Weaver" playing in the background...

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[137th Gebirg]

Howland Reed is alive.

Quite right! Forgot about him. The flashback scene that Bran witnessed almost made it look like he died immediately after stabbing Arthur Dayne in the back and I guess I subconsciously took that as Ned being the only survivor at the Tower.

It's entirely possible that, if Littlefinger knows about what happened there, there is the smallest chance he may have heard it from Reed, since he was never there to begin with, and I doubt Ned would have ever told him. Since, like Varys, Littlefinger puts a premium on information and intelligence gathering, I could easily see him figuring out a way to acquire such valuable information.

The more likely possibility is that he may have come about the information through Varys himself, or by some other individual who served under Mad King Areys at the Red Keep and was privy to royal secrets, like Rhaegar's not-so-public infatuation with Lyanna. It's uncertain exactly what he knows, or how much, but based on his brief and incomplete conversation with Sansa in the crypt, he definitely knows something and may have put some pieces together in the intervening years.

 

[Karzak]

GAME OF THRONES to introduce controversial new character.

 

[Roshi]

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YESSSSSSS!!!!!

 

[dahj]

It's entirely possible that, if Littlefinger knows about what happened there, there is the smallest chance he may have heard it from Reed, since he was never there to begin with, and I doubt Ned would have ever told him.

I don't think Reed would have told anyone and he is the only living witness, both in the books and TV show.
Littlefinger is likely just guessing, much like the readers