What happened to Jennifer Lien?

[Thomas Eugene]

even you have to admit that 7/9 was a great character and far more interesting than Kes, and Ryan is an excellent actress. It was certainly the shot in the arm that Voy needed after the incredibly lacklustre first three seasons. Almost all of the best Voy episodes involved 7 and/or the Doctor in some way.

the reasons for introducing the 7 character may have been cynical but the result was definitely positive.

I don't think any of TPTB ever felt axing Kes was a mistake, and in their defence they were generous enough to bring Lien back for the excellent Fury - a really underrated episode IMO, and good closure for the character

I might be the only one who thinks that BOTH were excellent characters.
Then again, I might be the only one who thinks that VOYAGER is excellent quality from CARETAKER to ENDGAME. I don't think that Seasons 4-7 are better, I simply think that there's a change in the tone of the show.
Of course, the very fact that for me Voyager basically equals Janeway might explain it. She has a strong presence from the first to the last episode and her character is basically the same throughout. I don't think I've ever heard from her critics, either that she was worse in the first or the second half of the show.
However, I'm a bit surprised that you like FURY. To me it was an insult to both the actress and the character.
But then ... each to his own. I thought the Kes character should have been left in peace after THE GIFT. She was given a relatively beautiful exit - why did they have to destroy it completely with FURY? She was never like what she was shown to have become in FURY and I really don't understand why they needed to bring a character back just to turn her into the complete opposite of herself without any plausible explanation and then dump her after one episode.
Then again, I don't understand why they had to axe her in the first place. A Voyager show with 10 characters would have been so much more interesting. Also, they began developing her character in the second half of Season 3 - and then she was suddenly thrown out. Why couldn't she get a recurring role at least? I still find that scene with Seven in the Jefferey's tube weird (YEAR OF HELL) - the last time it happened, it was Kes in that very same situation, not Seven.
If I had made Voyager, I would have done things a bit differently, anyway. (I guess that's true of every fan of this show ). I would have started out with a smaller number of main characters. On a long journey like this, I would think it was just natural that more and more people would be joining. Neelix could have come in Season 2, Kes in Season 3 and Seven in Season 4 - without anyone being axed.

 

[Six of Twelve]

I would have been happy to see both women continue, and I agree that Fury was an execrable episode that made no sense. At least Kes could have continued as a recurring character. I did like Seven of Nine better, but that doesn't mean that there shouldn't have been at least a part time role for Kes

 

[Lynx]

even you have to admit that 7/9 was a great character and far more interesting than Kes, and Ryan is an excellent actress. It was certainly the shot in the arm that Voy needed after the incredibly lacklustre first three seasons. Almost all of the best Voy episodes involved 7 and/or the Doctor in some way.

the reasons for introducing the 7 character may have been cynical but the result was definitely positive.

I don't think any of TPTB ever felt axing Kes was a mistake, and in their defence they were generous enough to bring Lien back for the excellent Fury - a really underrated episode IMO, and good closure for the character

Now, why should I admit that?

After all those years I don't think that 7/9 was a great character. I think she was average and not better or mor interesting than Kes or any other character Voyager already had. She was highly overrated and I still wonder if the character had been as popular as she was of the character Riley had been brought in as the token Borg and got every line that Seven had.

I admit that Ryan is a very good actress but I don't see her as better or superior to any of the Voyager cast members.

As I see it, the first three seasons were far better than seasons 4-7 which was centered on only three characters. It became a soap opera with these three while excellent characters like Chakotay, Paris, Tuvok and Torres were shoved in the background.

As for that episode in season 6 that you mentioned, it was the worst crap ever produced in any TV series and a downrigt insult from those "generous" producers (who were so greedy that they could affort 10 main character in the series) to a group of fans who dared to express their wishes to have Kes back. Only a sadist or someone who really hates the character and the actress can find this pathetic excuse for an episode "excellent".

 

[Clym]

I might be the only one who thinks that BOTH were excellent characters.
Then again, I might be the only one who thinks that VOYAGER is excellent quality from CARETAKER to ENDGAME. I don't think that Seasons 4-7 are better, I simply think that there's a change in the tone of the show.
Of course, the very fact that for me Voyager basically equals Janeway might explain it. She has a strong presence from the first to the last episode and her character is basically the same throughout. I don't think I've ever heard from her critics, either that she was worse in the first or the second half of the show.
However, I'm a bit surprised that you like FURY. To me it was an insult to both the actress and the character.
But then ... each to his own. I thought the Kes character should have been left in peace after THE GIFT. She was given a relatively beautiful exit - why did they have to destroy it completely with FURY? She was never like what she was shown to have become in FURY and I really don't understand why they needed to bring a character back just to turn her into the complete opposite of herself without any plausible explanation and then dump her after one episode.
Then again, I don't understand why they had to axe her in the first place. A Voyager show with 10 characters would have been so much more interesting. Also, they began developing her character in the second half of Season 3 - and then she was suddenly thrown out. Why couldn't she get a recurring role at least? I still find that scene with Seven in the Jefferey's tube weird (YEAR OF HELL) - the last time it happened, it was Kes in that very same situation, not Seven.
If I had made Voyager, I would have done things a bit differently, anyway. (I guess that's true of every fan of this show ). I would have started out with a smaller number of main characters. On a long journey like this, I would think it was just natural that more and more people would be joining. Neelix could have come in Season 2, Kes in Season 3 and Seven in Season 4 - without anyone being axed.

Voyager was so derivitive from start to finish that the only way you could tell if you were watching an early episode or a later episode was the presence of Kes or 7/9 - that and Janeway's hairstyle.

 

[Clym]

Now, why should I admit that?

maybe because you know it's the truth

As I see it, the first three seasons were far better than seasons 4-7 which was centered on only three characters. It became a soap opera with these three while excellent characters like Chakotay, Paris, Tuvok and Torres were shoved in the background.

you haven't even seen Season 7 so how would you know? S7 was vastly better than S1-3, and S4 was the best season of them all.

they focussed on Janeway, 7 and the Doc because they were the best charaacters played by the best actors. Chakotay and Paris were not 'excellent' characters, they were dull and irritating - the last thing anyone wanted to see were more turgid Chakotay/Paris/Kim/Neelix centred episodes. Could have done with a bit more Tuvok

As for that episode in season 6 that you mentioned, it was the worst crap ever produced in any TV series and a downrigt insult from those "generous" producers (who were so greedy that they could affort 10 main character in the series) to a group of fans who dared to express their wishes to have Kes back. Only a sadist or someone who really hates the character and the actress can find this pathetic excuse for an episode "excellent"

yes I do really hate the Kes character, and I'm outraged by some of the things Lien has done, but that's not why I support Fury - it works well as an episode and added depth to Kes, and even forced Lien to act for once. If it was so insulting to Lien then why did she agree to do it? She picked up a nice check for the episode, so she can't complain

 

[TonyLeung82]

In some way i can support both attitudes regarding Kes in Fury.
It is not good how they treated the character of Kes. The complete return of her in this circumstances is weird and not fair for Kes or Jennifer Lien. The complete time-travel back to Season 1 is wrong.
After Kes did the time-jump back to Season 1 and got stopped from Janeway/Tuvok, the both officers knew about a possible future. This means Janeway/Tuvok will know (in Season 1) the leaving of Kes (Season 4) and the violent return of her in Season 6. So Janeway know for sure in Season 1 the Voyager will survive at least till Season 6, because if not there would not be a time-travel which already happened.
This means Janeway knows fur sure every possible deadly mission or encounted deadly enemy between Season 1 and Season 6 they will survive. Do you understand what I mean? It is like my son will come back from the future and tell me I will live until i am 120 years old. With this knowledge you would react different in deadly missions because you know nothing will happen to you. This was the weirdest thing of the episode.
But nevertheless this episode itself is very good if you get rid of this character-questions regarding Kes or the time-travel. it is thrilling, good effects and emotional. Even the Vidians come back.
And like Clym already mentioned, Jennifer Lien took the money for the part.

 

[Lynx]

Clym wrote:

maybe because you know it's the truth

Your so-called "truth" but not mine.

You haven't even seen Season 7 so how would you know? S7 was vastly better than S1-3, and S4 was the best season of them all.
they focussed on Janeway, 7 and the Doc because they were the best charaacters played by the best actors. Chakotay and Paris were not 'excellent' characters, they were dull and irritating - the last thing anyone wanted to see were more turgid Chakotay/Paris/Kim/Neelix centred episodes. Could have done with a bit more Tuvok

You don't seem to like the Voyager characters so why watch it?

I didn't watch season 7 because of the fact that those in charge insulted me and many other fans by coming up with that s**t episode in season 6. So why should I watch their product and contribute to the ratings, which by the way were much lower for season 4-7 than for seasons 1-3.

I don't think that season 7 was better than seasons 1-3 and season 4 wasn't. Season 2 was the best Voyager episode.

yes I do really hate the Kes character, and I'm outraged by some of the things Lien has done

Well, comment says it all.

 

[Lynx]

In some way i can support both attitudes regarding Kes in Fury.
It is not good how they treated the character of Kes. The complete return of her in this circumstances is weird and not fair for Kes or Jennifer Lien. The complete time-travel back to Season 1 is wrong.
After Kes did the time-jump back to Season 1 and got stopped from Janeway/Tuvok, the both officers knew about a possible future. This means Janeway/Tuvok will know (in Season 1) the leaving of Kes (Season 4) and the violent return of her in Season 6. So Janeway know for sure in Season 1 the Voyager will survive at least till Season 6, because if not there would not be a time-travel which already happened.
This means Janeway knows fur sure every possible deadly mission or encounted deadly enemy between Season 1 and Season 6 they will survive. Do you understand what I mean? It is like my son will come back from the future and tell me I will live until i am 120 years old. With this knowledge you would react different in deadly missions because you know nothing will happen to you. This was the weirdest thing of the episode.
But nevertheless this episode itself is very good if you get rid of this character-questions regarding Kes or the time-travel. it is thrilling, good effects and emotional. Even the Vidians come back.
And like Clym already mentioned, Jennifer Lien took the money for the part.

I see nothing good with that episode. An insulting piece of crap. The whole story was so full of holes and inconsequences that it looks like it was written by an idiot.

As for Lien taking part in that morbid farce, well she did lose a lot of points in my book there.
But maybe she needed the money.

Not to mention that she actually persuaded the "good-hearted" producers not to kill of the character which was their original plan.

 

[Clym]

I don't think that season 7 was better than seasons 1-3 and season 4 wasn't

how do you know when you never saw it?!!! you're not entitled to an opinion on S7.

For someone who's such a big Voy fan, posts every day about the show, and even has a website dedicated to it, it's a little strange that there's an entire season you haven't seen even after 15 years

Well, comment says it all.

I know you like Lien but how you can defend some of the things she's done is not right. I'm aware she has mental problems and I sympathise but there's no excuse for graphically exposing yourself to children or DUI. Ask anybody who's lost a loved one to a drunk driver

 

[Lynx]

^^
I saw no reason to watch it then. There mght come a day when I do buy the season 4-7 DVD:s and watch season 7. But not now and not because you are ranting about it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but what I know there was no mention of alcohol in the police reports or media when Lien was arrested for reckless driving. I'm not writing this as some sort of excuse, just presenting the facts

Not to mention that I haven't in any way defended the recent things she have been involved in. Please check my previous posts in this thread and the other recent Jennifer Lien thread which can be found here:

http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/jennifer-lien-in-legal-trouble-again.275877/

before you accuse me of something I haven't done.

Personally I'm totally against drunken driving which in my opinion should lead to jail and a lifetime loss of the driving license and yes, I know people whose relatives have lost their loved ones to drunken drivers.

I have compassion for Lien but I will not defend her recent actions. However, I won't speculate about why or what has happened because I don't have the facts.

My long-time liking of the character Kes is not affected at all by the recent events Lien has been involved in and not my disliking for how the character was treated either.

 

[Clym]

orrect me if I'm wrong but what I know there was no mention of alcohol in the police reports or media when Lien was arrested for reckless driving

charged with DUI
http://www.daltondailycitizen.com/n...cle_f021279e-e353-11e5-bd4d-53dc9e09415f.html

 

[at Quark's]

As for Lien taking part in that morbid farce, well she did lose a lot of points in my book there.
But maybe she needed the money.

Is there actually anything known about what Lien herself thought of how the Kes character was treated in 'Fury'? I can only find (e.g. in the wikipedia article) that she liked the opening scene, and that she later stated that she could have made some different acting choices in the ep,but that's about it....

 

[Lynx]

charged with DUI
http://www.daltondailycitizen.com/n...cle_f021279e-e353-11e5-bd4d-53dc9e09415f.html

OK, I stand corrected.

And none of this will change my statements in my previous post.

However, there are some things that surprises me!

First of all, this report is from 5 March 2016, which means that this felony is newer than the previous ones which are discussed in this thread and in the other thread I provided a link to.

Second, the address is different than her previous one in Harriman.

Third, how did you find that one?

Fourth, oh dear!

 

[Clym]

from season 7 I would recommend

Imperfection - A good Seven episode
Body and Soul - Good Seven/Doctor ep
Flesh and Blood
Lineage - an outstanding episode, better than anything in Season1-3
The Void
Workforce
human Error
Author Author - Great Doc ep
Homestead - finally Neelix gets kicked off Voyager! Shame it didn't happen sooner. I think Kes gets a mention

 

[Clym]

OK, I stand corrected.

And none of this will change my statements in my previous post.

However, there are some things that surprises me!

First of all, this report is from 5 March 2016, which means that this felony is newer than the previous ones which are discussed in this thread and in the other thread I provided a link to.

Second, the address is different than her previous one in Harriman.

Third, how did you find that one?

Fourth, oh dear!

she must be a serial offender - some people just are, it's in their genes. Remember Henry Hill? Even after he got put in the witness protection scheme he continued to run his criminal mob operations.

don't know why the address is different - perhaps it's her safe house? Actually I'm surprised they print the full addresses in the paper - isn't that a breach of privacy?

 

[2takesfrakes]

Is there actually anything known about what Lien herself thought of how the Kes character was treated in 'Fury'? I can only find (e.g. in the wikipedia article) that she liked the opening scene, and that she later stated that she could have made some different acting choices in the ep,but that's about it....

As I understand it, Jennifer Lien had input on "Fury," suggesting a collaborative effort. More that than, I can't say on it.

 

[Triskelion]

Is it J. Ann or J. Anne? If the March 5 2016 arrest record DUI is her, then it means she has been released, in some manner, from her 6 month extension. Quietly, which is not surprising, and who wouldn't want that. It also means she is not out of the weeds, and not a great reflection on the system but not surprising either, considering
the volume issues.

Lien's Wikipedia page describes a youth surrounded by drug abuse, which she escaped at an early age to pursue acting. Soon after she found national exposure in shows like Phenom. So what we might be witnessing could be related to a child star thing; without a strong educational background to fall back on; and coping with economic stresses with those models from her life before the Hollywood machine.

In a strange way, reaffirming her self identity, free of facades, through the only means of control available to her: self destruction.

This may happen when you seem to have no other sense of control or avenue of expression. Exacerbated if you happen to be a mother who is no longer responsible for your own offspring. Also affected by the behavior of those around you, who may require varying degrees of control over you.

All shameless conjecture, but I never did care for pat negative labels to describe motives - (Correspondence Bias).

Here's hoping she can find some constructive power and a way through these changing experiences. before she makes a permanent mistake. Many of us wish her well, but she is fast alienating herself from society and damaging her community. No one else can pull her together if she won't.

You know it's interesting, all of her offenses seem to involve the public. I wonder if she misses the limelight; despite her discomfort with convention appearances, etc. Well, welcome to obscurity. Medicating yourself is one way to lock yourself up in it. I personally think hypnotherapy might help her restructure her destructive behavioral responses to her conditions and relieve her avoidance issues with the public; and restore confidence. Her family relationships might take more heavy lifting.

 

[Lynx]

What strikes me is that she did seem to live a normal life back in 2010 when she was interviewed on the startrek.com site, married with a kid and wondering about future studies.

http://www.startrek.com/article/catching-up-with-jennifer-lien

Then WHAM! Two years later she's in Tennessee, areested for domestic violence (apparently a row with her mother) and we know the rest.

Was she dumped or cheated on by her husband or what caused all this?

What I see at the Wikipedia site, she did actually manage to stay away from drugs and problems when she was young and she did seem to be a tough, independent person.

As for recovering and treatment, one thing is clear. She has to be really strong-willed and determined if she will come back to a normal life. treatment is useless if the patient don't have the will to get better.

I have tons of biographies over rock bands and rock musicians and in every story there is some poor soul who ends up without any money, whacked, lost or dead.

Not to mention that Hollywood sems to be ten times worse than the rock music industry. In rock music, there are always some people who get a good life or at least manage to stay away from the craziness. In Hellywood almost everyone seem to have some issues.

It also takes money to get the best doctors and specialists and I wonder if Lien has it.

Anyway, this is one of the most tragic things I've heard about and read about, maybe because the character she played in Voyager and the actress became a personal favorite in the series.

I only hope that she can get her life in order somehow and somewhere.

2takesfrakes wrote:

As I understand it, Jennifer Lien had input on "Fury," suggesting a collaborative effort. More that than, I can't say on it.

I read somewhere that her only input in "Fury" was that she persuaded the benevolent people in charge that the character would not be killed off, something they obviously had planned to do.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Seven was an interesting concept and they could've really gone into some harrowing stories about people facing, dealing with and overcoming imprisonment/brain-washing/rape, all of which would be very difficult journeys and would see her becoming stronger in herself as an individual and a person. Instead she instantly became an ice maiden, someone who was far too hard.

Kes by her very nature is a more innocent, nurturing and curious person, far more relatable and personable, I found. They could've gone in a whole manner of different directions with her, definitely far more than they did with Kim or Chakotay.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I read somewhere that her only input in "Fury" was that she persuaded the benevolent people in charge that the character would not be killed off, something they obviously had planned to do.

Neither Kes, nor Jennifer seem to be able to catch a break. So much beauty. So much pain ...