Ask Tony Todd what he thinks of all this, for instance. I'm thinking that ship has permanently sailed, for one.
CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
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Ask Tony Todd what he thinks of all this, for instance. I'm thinking that ship has permanently sailed, for one.
The affair did rather expose Peters as being in many ways the kind of personality his detractors claimed he was. A lot of people who were formerly interested in (and to some extent rooting for) Team Axanar will feel a lot cooler toward it in the future, I certainly know I'm one of those.
Not that the crowd of spiteful rubberneckers gathered here were much more appealing, frankly. I hope seeing Lin and Abrams carry in the torch of reconciliation gives them some perspective on just what their behaviour really looked like. (And that the "JJ is teh devil" crowd can learn from this to finally give it a rest and move on, too.)
Wouldn't it be something if we actually got a less toxic dynamic in the fan film community, and the fandom community as a whole, out of this whole chain of events?
Not that the crowd of spiteful rubberneckers gathered here were much more appealing, frankly. I hope seeing Lin and Abrams carry in the torch of reconciliation gives them some perspective on just what their behaviour really looked like. (And that the "JJ is teh devil" crowd can learn from this to finally give it a rest and move on, too.)
Wouldn't it be something if we actually got a less toxic dynamic in the fan film community, and the fandom community as a whole, out of this whole chain of events?
You know, as much as I loath Peters and the whole Axanar enterprise (no pun intended), and as much as I personally think settling this case is a mistake on the part of the studio, I find the reaction to this news very sad on the part of a lot of Anti-Axanar folks. I think it betrays their attitudes somewhat.
Let's be honest. Some individuals associated with some of the Anti-Axanar groups have taken this way too seriously. Those individuals, often whose names tends to appear most frequently on any kind of talkback or group associated with Axanar where Axanar criticism is permitted, have been obsessing over every little detail day after day after day. Sometimes this has gotten a little sour. The explanation has always been about protecting IP rights and artist's interests. In some cases journalism and free speech has been used to justify it....and Peters, with his arrogant and dismissive approach and use of immature labels like "haters", has helped to legitimise such claims by quite simply behaving far worse than anyone on the other side. I'm sure those people do care about those elements, but you just don't invest the kind of time and energy in this sort of thing unless you have an axe to grind, either through obsession or grudge. Often these people aren't even Axanar donors. Some of the behaviour has included character assassinations and targeting people they have deemed to be guilty by association with Peters. Sometimes it has been out and out nasty and vitriolic. The nature of it all has been such that from January onward I have felt less and less inclined to participate in Axanar related discussions as some of the anti-Axanar people have felt like pack hounds out for blood. For all their stupidity and delusions, I haven't found the Axanar supporters to quite as obsessive.
Now we have this announcement and some of the behaviour of the anti-Axanar people in the past 24 hours has been very telling, from desperate speculation about just how the settlement might undermine Peters to clearly emotional sore loser blog posts and now I've even seen speculation in certain places that Paramount will bow out of the litigation but CBS will continue. Anti-Axanar people are also not now holding back with throwing any label Peters way, such as shyster and con artist. It all seems to be motivated by a sense of denial and chagrin that Peters may come out of this living to see another day when, let's face it, at least a percentage of the Anti-Axanar folks wanted to see the man ruined, whether they want to admit it publicly or not. Even if Axanar still doesn't get made and Peters has to repay the donors, the reality is that a settlement that also sees guidelines set for fan film use, that has arisen out of pressure from Lin and Bad Robot, is unlikely to be of the kind that significantly penalises Peters. If it is an out of court settlement then we won't know the full details. Even if it is settlement by way of a consensual court order, it may not be in the form that will satisfy those who want to see the comeuppance of Peters. I think if some where honest with themselves they know this to be true, and they know that no matter what they say the inevitable gloating of Lord Peters and his cult members is going to happen come what may.
All I'm saying is that for their own sanity I think it is time for some on the anti-Axanar side to bow out and devote their energies to better pursuits. For others maybe it's time to take a break, at least until more details or settlement and/or guidelines come through. Quite simply the influence of Abrams & Lin and the decision not to pursue the litigation outstrips anything anyone on the anti-Axanar folks can do, whether Peters seemingly getting away with his behaviour is justified or not. I think maybe it's time to be graceful in what in all likelihood is defeat. Only time will tell now whether or not Axanar gets made and Peters can fulfill his obligation to the donors. Let Peters be the author of his own downfall, which he likely will be one day, if not any time soon. With that in mind I don't see any benefit to continuing to push for division among fans if the studio themselves no longer feel it's in their interests to go after Peters.
Just my two cents. .
Let's be honest. Some individuals associated with some of the Anti-Axanar groups have taken this way too seriously. Those individuals, often whose names tends to appear most frequently on any kind of talkback or group associated with Axanar where Axanar criticism is permitted, have been obsessing over every little detail day after day after day. Sometimes this has gotten a little sour. The explanation has always been about protecting IP rights and artist's interests. In some cases journalism and free speech has been used to justify it....and Peters, with his arrogant and dismissive approach and use of immature labels like "haters", has helped to legitimise such claims by quite simply behaving far worse than anyone on the other side. I'm sure those people do care about those elements, but you just don't invest the kind of time and energy in this sort of thing unless you have an axe to grind, either through obsession or grudge. Often these people aren't even Axanar donors. Some of the behaviour has included character assassinations and targeting people they have deemed to be guilty by association with Peters. Sometimes it has been out and out nasty and vitriolic. The nature of it all has been such that from January onward I have felt less and less inclined to participate in Axanar related discussions as some of the anti-Axanar people have felt like pack hounds out for blood. For all their stupidity and delusions, I haven't found the Axanar supporters to quite as obsessive.
Now we have this announcement and some of the behaviour of the anti-Axanar people in the past 24 hours has been very telling, from desperate speculation about just how the settlement might undermine Peters to clearly emotional sore loser blog posts and now I've even seen speculation in certain places that Paramount will bow out of the litigation but CBS will continue. Anti-Axanar people are also not now holding back with throwing any label Peters way, such as shyster and con artist. It all seems to be motivated by a sense of denial and chagrin that Peters may come out of this living to see another day when, let's face it, at least a percentage of the Anti-Axanar folks wanted to see the man ruined, whether they want to admit it publicly or not. Even if Axanar still doesn't get made and Peters has to repay the donors, the reality is that a settlement that also sees guidelines set for fan film use, that has arisen out of pressure from Lin and Bad Robot, is unlikely to be of the kind that significantly penalises Peters. If it is an out of court settlement then we won't know the full details. Even if it is settlement by way of a consensual court order, it may not be in the form that will satisfy those who want to see the comeuppance of Peters. I think if some where honest with themselves they know this to be true, and they know that no matter what they say the inevitable gloating of Lord Peters and his cult members is going to happen come what may.
All I'm saying is that for their own sanity I think it is time for some on the anti-Axanar side to bow out and devote their energies to better pursuits. For others maybe it's time to take a break, at least until more details or settlement and/or guidelines come through. Quite simply the influence of Abrams & Lin and the decision not to pursue the litigation outstrips anything anyone on the anti-Axanar folks can do, whether Peters seemingly getting away with his behaviour is justified or not. I think maybe it's time to be graceful in what in all likelihood is defeat. Only time will tell now whether or not Axanar gets made and Peters can fulfill his obligation to the donors. Let Peters be the author of his own downfall, which he likely will be one day, if not any time soon. With that in mind I don't see any benefit to continuing to push for division among fans if the studio themselves no longer feel it's in their interests to go after Peters.
Just my two cents. .
Yes. Not because of Axanar itself, but the way Alec went about it. He took something that he didn't own and tried to make a business out of it. He has a donor store which sells unlicensed merch. He set up studio with donor money to ostensibly make this movie, but also to profit by renting it. All this on a property he doesn't own. He paid himself a salary. He doesn't have the right to pay anybody to make Star Trek because he doesn't own the property. He's asked people to write novilisations, suggesting that they use a pen name so the property owner doesn't find out. This is true, that author, a man who's written licensed Star Trek novels, has talked about about this on this BBS. He failed to notify people that Tony Todd had left the project, and still left him on the cast page for several months after Mr Todd left. This has been verified than Mr Todd himself.
Alec has shown himself to be dishonest and willing to cheat to get what he wants. No, he should not be allowed to go on with this project and if I had been a donor, I would file a fraud complaint with the California Attorney General
Ha, you posted this while I was typing out my own ramble. Perfectly put and a lot more succinct than my post.
Well, if he doesn't make Axanar then donors can still make a claim against him, irrespective of the settlement.
But the fact is that none of what you have otherwise written will be unknown to the studio and their lawyers. They will know better than anyone else...and if they decide to come to the table, well, it's their IP and it's their choice. It's not the choice of the fans....and, frankly, unless a fan is also a donor, from a legal point of view it really isn't the business of fans.
I recover from my daily bout of unconsciousness and find ten pages / 200 posts to wade through.....
What I suspect happened is Justin Lin had a conversation with someone at the studio and asked about Axanar, and was told "Don't worry your pretty little head about it. In a few weeks, it'll all blow over." Whomever he spoke to never thought to say "keep it under you hat." Lin and Abrams took that as they announced.
I'd rather see CBS do it as a four movie set or a twelve-part TV mini-series. It's too much for one movie.
I don't think they did. I seriously doubt they had any idea of that.
What I suspect happened is Justin Lin had a conversation with someone at the studio and asked about Axanar, and was told "Don't worry your pretty little head about it. In a few weeks, it'll all blow over." Whomever he spoke to never thought to say "keep it under you hat." Lin and Abrams took that as they announced.
I had a co-worker who always like to say, "Denial isn't just a river in India," to which I'd always reply, "You're right, it's not." That went on for almost a year. Boy, was she ever mad at me when she discovered / was told her mistake.
Oh, yes, of course. I'm saying I'd allow payment for someone who's not directly associated with the production. Let's say you hire a tow truck to move your shuttle out to a field to do on-location filming. You can't say, "Oh, by the way, this is for a fan-film, so we can't pay you." You can pay someone to build a 20x50 foot green wall for you. You cannot pay the guy to run the camera. That's how I'd write the rules.
Oh, good point. I hadn't thought of that.
Depends on the settlement terms. I'm good with anything that says, "You're NOT going to earn money using our name or our products for free."
Why can't I put more than one 'like' on that???
Sorry if that's how you see this thread. If fact, are we not on the verge of witnessing a bit of Star Trek fan film history?
So what is a "Fan Film"? Ask each fan film studio and you'll get an assortment of different answers. Will Axanar become the new outer edge of the envelop or will all the limits of IP usage be removed?
Stick around, we live in interesting times.
I hear that, Sarge. Was online when the news broke and didn't want to go to sleep last night cuz I didn't wanna miss the fireworks. Shoulda gone to sleep tho.
While what you say is true in any litigation, let's be realistic here. Abrams is the head of his own production company. He's no stranger to dealing with lawyers, particularly high quality studio instructed lawyers. He wouldn't have made the comments he did yesterday unless he was given the okay to do so and for that there either needs to have been a reasonable amount of progress in negotiations or an out and out decision by the studio to ultimately give up. So either JJ has been a very naughty boy indeed and forced the studio's hand or wheels are indeed fully in motion to bring this to an end.Two thoughts, which may already have been covered, as I don't have the time or interest to read thirty-odd pages.
First, just because CBS/P and Axanar are in settlement negotiations doesn't mean that a settlement will be reached nor that the case will never reach trial. CBS/P has to be willing to accept what Peters is offering and vice versa. If the two parties don't have common ground and can't reach an agreement, the lawsuit will go on. Peters may have, for the moment, a PR victory, but nothing meaningful may come of it. I would not be surprised at all if the settlement talks fail to produce an agreeable solution to both parties.
Second, the settlement is a wholly separate thing from "fan film guidelines"; the litigation may have spurred the studios to develop such a thing, but they're not really part of the potential settlement.
Let me put it this way, if the studio was intent on protecting it's position in the event of going to trial they never would have authorised Abrams to make a statement that some might consider a partial concession.
That is assuming that he was authorized. Why didn't the announcement come from CBS/Paramount? Why have there been no other announcements from their offices confirming this? Why would the announcement come "a few weeks" before its finality? Just because he's produces the Star Trek movies, doesn't make him an authorized spokesperson.
I'll believe it when the suit is dropped or it comes from CBS, Paramount, or L & L
He tasks them... and they shall have him! They'll chase him round Paramount Pictures Studios and round the Hollywood Sign and round Perdition's flames before they give him up!
But yes, Axanar will wait. She's not going anywhere.
Talks have been going on for weeks...... Nothing has really changed. Don't know what the big deal is. Most people figured this would get settled before it reached its court date on Jan 2017. CBS/P still holds all the cards. If Axanar won't agree then they can just say talks stalled, let's move on to discovery.
Entertaining definitely. Showing Trek fans in a good light? I'm not so sure.Since the beginning I've found this entire boondoggle and all its characters the most entertaining display produced in years by anything to do with Star Trek, and the laughs don't look likely to diminish any in the next several months.
I'm still in.
I've seen both pro-Axanar and anti-Axanar both cite IDIC, tolerance and Gene's beliefs as the example of what the opposing side should consider in terms of approach all this. But the behaviour of some people on both sides has been anything but. I think some of the behaviour has been very petty and disappointing and, if I were honest, not what I would expect from Trek fans. It's left a sour taste. Still, the majority of fans aren't like that, which is a good thing.
I was looking for an expression on Lin's face when J.J said that but couldn't pick up much.
Not everyone in this thread, to be fair.
I wonder what the guidelines will be like. I mean they could be as restrictive as those for Star Wars fan films. On the other hand, it would be very difficult to come up with clear rules that would prevent something like Axanar from happening again but not hurt productions like STC.
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