• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Filming in Toronto (Canada) and not set on the Enterprise....

Granted, the TOS movies visited 23rd century Earth fairly often, and not just Starfleet Headquarters in San Francisco. We also saw Kirk's apartment on Earth, that cringe-inducing camping trip in the fifth movie, etc.

And that was one of the changes the movies made from the series. It's interesting to realize how much of the modern perception of TOS is rooted more in the movies than in the series. There's the perception of Kirk as a renegade, based mainly on The Search for Spock and its aftermath, when TOS Kirk was a good soldier who almost always followed orders even when he disagreed with them (e.g. "The Galileo Seven," "A Taste of Armageddon," etc.). There's the focus on Earth. There's the 23rd-century setting, something never made explicit until TMP and TWOK. And there's the standardized use of the term "mind meld." TOS used a mix of terms for it; in the first season it was just an unnamed "Vulcan technique," the second season used "mind probe" three times and "mind touch" once, the third season used "mind meld" twice and "mind fusion" and "mind link" once each, and the animated series went back to "mind touch." It wasn't until the movies (TMP, TSFS, TVH) that "mind meld" became the default term.
 
I'm surprised they're talking about moving it to CW. I would have thought CBSAA would have been a good fit for Supergirl and a natural complement to Star Trek.
 
It wasn't until the movies (TMP, TSFS, TVH) that "mind meld" became the default term.


I think it's a good thing they ended up with one term. Less confusing for viewers if the language is consistent, especially if they were hoping for the movies to reach a wider audience. Kind of reminds me how they used Spaceship interchangeably with Starship before they settled on Starship.
 
I think it's a good thing they ended up with one term. Less confusing for viewers if the language is consistent, especially if they were hoping for the movies to reach a wider audience.

Still, I wonder why they settled on "mind meld" instead of "mind probe," which was used more often in TOS, or "mind touch," which was used more recently in TAS. Out of all the terms to choose from, why did TMP's writers pick that particular one? In The Star Trek Concordance, the version that gets the longest entry (29 lines) is "Vulcan mind touch," with "mind link" (non-Vulcan) getting six lines, "Vulcan mind fusion" five lines, and "Vulcan mind meld" only four, the shortest entry (though no "mind probe" anywhere in sight). Actually the writers' bible for Phase II, the project that turned into TMP, uses the term "mind-meld" for Xon's mental abilities, whereas the TOS bible just referred to Spock's "strange Vulcan 'ESP' ability to merge his mind with another intelligence." So why did that bible choose the term?

Okay, here we go... The Making of Star Trek, written late in season 2, refers to Spock's ability as "mind-melding," probably the earliest use of the term. It's possible Whitfield got it from the scripts to "Spock's Brain" and "Elaan of Troyius," though, depending on how early they were written. TMoST was the definitive ST reference book in its day, so it's probably the source for the standardization of the term. Interesting that it came more from a tie-in book than from the series itself.
 
Still, I wonder why they settled on "mind meld" instead of "mind probe," which was used more often in TOS, or "mind touch," which was used more recently in TAS. Out of all the terms to choose from, why did TMP's writers pick that particular one?


It's an interesting discussion. The way I see it, if I put myself in the shoes of someone who doesn't know Trek as well, I think that I'd be more easily able to visualize what a mind meld is, versus a mind probe or mind fusion. Maybe the movie producers realized this was the case when they went to try to define it. And of course, maybe with that reference book you mention, it was maybe already solidified in the minds of the people by the time the movies were being produced that it didn't make much sense to contradict it.
 
It's an interesting discussion. The way I see it, if I put myself in the shoes of someone who doesn't know Trek as well, I think that I'd be more easily able to visualize what a mind meld is, versus a mind probe or mind fusion.

I think that's just because you've spent the past four decades (or less?) in a world where "mind meld" was a well-known term. So it's osmosed into everyone's pop-culture vocabulary by now. Back in the '60s or '70s, that wasn't as much the case. If you think about it, "meld" isn't that commonly used a word outside of card games. "Fusion" is a more widely known synonym, and "mind probe" is pretty self-explanatory and also widely used in science fiction in general. (Say "No, not the mind probe!" to any classic Doctor Who fan and they'll probably snicker.) And "mind touch" seems to work well for any kind of mental contact, particularly given that Vulcans are touch telepaths, giving it a dual meaning.

And of course, maybe with that reference book you mention, it was maybe already solidified in the minds of the people by the time the movies were being produced that it didn't make much sense to contradict it.

That's what I'm thinking. Because of the book, it had already been popularized by that time. I just checked -- 1970's Spock Must Die! used yet another term, "mind-lock." But the next original Bantam publication, the 1976 anthology Star Trek: The New Voyages (which was mostly reprinting earlier fanfiction stories), uses "mind-meld" consistently in multiple stories, and as far as I can tell, it was pretty standard in Bantam's books from then on. So it was somewhere between 1970 and '76 that it came to be regarded as the default term in the literature -- even though TAS, in '73-'74, used "mind touch" instead. I think The Making of Star Trek had to be the original source... but that just leaves the mystery of where it got the term.
 
I think that's just because you've spent the past four decades (or less?) in a world where "mind meld" was a well-known term.

You'd be right :) Yeah, I guess I could see how those others would have been more widely used and more popular back then. It does show how language tends to come and go, and evolve. I think that out of any of those, probe sounds the most science-fiction-ny. But at the same time, maybe they were looking to create something more unique, less expected? You say meld wasn't a widely used term, and maybe that's the whole point. Maybe in the end, they wanted to apply an uncommon word to their sci-fi setting. With all of those different names for it in TOS, it seems to me they hadn't settled on the idea of what to call it.



I think The Making of Star Trek had to be the original source... but that just leaves the mystery of where it got the term.

Yeah, it's weird. You mention the early scripts, and it's possible that he based it on what he saw on those, and inadvertently became the first to use it, if things changed on the production side of things. I guess that's the peril of using early scripts, that things can change. I could see that happening.
 
Well your link just repeats the 'carry on from where TUC left off' quote and the existing rumour about an anthology series - it doesn't offer any corroboration that it will be prime universe at all. As your first link says, no story or casting details have been released. Until they are, setting is a mystery.

Let's hope that it isn't set in that universe at all, as others have said here; it needs to end, and for the show to be set in the current old/new epoch.
 
Still, I wonder why they settled on "mind meld" instead of "mind probe," which was used more often in TOS, or "mind touch," which was used more recently in TAS. Out of all the terms to choose from, why did TMP's writers pick that particular one? In The Star Trek Concordance, the version that gets the longest entry (29 lines) is "Vulcan mind touch," with "mind link" (non-Vulcan) getting six lines, "Vulcan mind fusion" five lines, and "Vulcan mind meld" only four, the shortest entry (though no "mind probe" anywhere in sight). Actually the writers' bible for Phase II, the project that turned into TMP, uses the term "mind-meld" for Xon's mental abilities, whereas the TOS bible just referred to Spock's "strange Vulcan 'ESP' ability to merge his mind with another intelligence." So why did that bible choose the term?

Okay, here we go... The Making of Star Trek, written late in season 2, refers to Spock's ability as "mind-melding," probably the earliest use of the term. It's possible Whitfield got it from the scripts to "Spock's Brain" and "Elaan of Troyius," though, depending on how early they were written. TMoST was the definitive ST reference book in its day, so it's probably the source for the standardization of the term. Interesting that it came more from a tie-in book than from the series itself.
I wonder if it's because "meld" tended to refer more to the full "minds becoming one" interaction in episodes such as "Spectre of the Gun" - while "mind touch" and "mind probe" used for lesser interactions, such as in "By Any Other Name".
 
I wonder if it's because "meld" tended to refer more to the full "minds becoming one" interaction in episodes such as "Spectre of the Gun" - while "mind touch" and "mind probe" used for lesser interactions, such as in "By Any Other Name".

That's what I used to think, but "By Any Other Name" was really the only episode that used those terms to suggest a less intimate bond. "The Changeling" used "probe," and so did "Dagger of the Mind" to an extent ("an ancient Vulcan technique to probe into Van Gelder's tortured mind"), and those were both the full joining, as was the "mind touch" in both TAS usages and the "mind link" in "Is There in Truth No Beauty?" If anything, the debut use of "meld" in "Spectre" seems more like hypnotic suggestion than a full union of minds, and its only other TOS use in "Elaan of Troyius" was as a potential means of interrogation. Neither of which seems as intense a bonding as the various techniques and probes and touches and links and of other episodes.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top