Klingon Cloak... Without Honor?

[Ithekro]

The way we usually see the cloaking device work against the Federation is that Starfleet tends to find Klingon ships fairly often. Or it doesn't take all that long for a countermeasure to be made. Romulan cloaking devices seem to be better most of the time.

 

[Timo]

FWIW, our heroes seemed to be completely familiar with the concept of Klingon Kloaking in ST3:TSfS. They could even correctly guess the specific model of Klingon ship associated with the specific cloaking effect. (It was also the first time in Star Trek that a ship model was called Bird of Prey...)

It's not as if cloaking, or the ability to appear out of nothingness right next to your victim, would be something rare and specific in Star Trek. Our heroes encountered that sort of thing all the time in TOS, with little mention of it being special. To consider it particularly honorable or dishonorable doesn't sound fruitful, unless one extends the courtesy to other commonplace but potentially cowardly things like shields and ranged weapons. The Samurai code didn't ban the use of bows and arrows, either!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Retu]

Actually I'd say it's completely different from that. Hunting downwind would be more akin to using a planet to hide behind until a target is close enough, at which point you engage in a fair fight, albeit with a slight advantage if you stay far back enough. In much the same way that if you get too close to, say, a deer while sneaking up on it from downwind; if you get anywhere close enough to strike them with anything but a firearm, they'll spot you and dart off.

A cloak lets you walk up to an enemy and backstab them at point-blank range before they even know what's going on. Or slip past an enemy's defenses and attack their civilian population, then disappear before they even know what happened, let alone have time to retaliate.

Those things aren't relatable at all to my eyes.

During the age of sail it was an acceptable ruse de guerre was to fly a friendly or neutral nation's flag while you maneuvered your ship for a point blank range broadside. Then, just before you opened fire, you lowered the false flag and raised your own. It was only considered dishonorable if you didn't show your true colors first. The same principle can be followed right up to the Second World War. (The trial of Otto Skorzeny comes to mind.)

 

[Khaless the Unforgettable]

During the age of sail it was an acceptable ruse de guerre was to fly a friendly or neutral nation's flag while you maneuvered your ship for a point blank range broadside. Then, just before you opened fire, you lowered the false flag and raised your own. It was only considered dishonorable if you didn't show your true colors first. The same principle can be followed right up to the Second World War. (The trial of Otto Skorzeny comes to mind.)

And your point being?

Also, are you saying that after you make that initial attack, you could then raise the flag and immediately all hostilities would stop as you "recloaked" and made your getaway?

 

[JesterFace]

As a whole, the Klingon culture/species doesn't appear as honorable as they claim to be.

 

[Retu]

And your point being?

My point was that achieving a total surprise by any means necessary isn't considered dishonorable even by human standards if you follow certain rules. Klingon dropping the cloak is comparable to sailing under a wrong flag or wearing the wrong uniform and then discarding it.

Also, are you saying that after you make that initial attack, you could then raise the flag and immediately all hostilities would stop as you "recloaked" and made your getaway?

Well that depends whether there are anyone left alive to continue the hostilities, doesn't it? And in any rate, there have been cases in maritime history where a commerce raider with false flag and some camouflaging has basically said to their pursuers that "Yeah, we saw that ship. They went thataway.".

 

[UnknownSample]

It sounds like we're not supposed to try to trick the enemy. War is about tricking the enemy all the time. If a cloak is dishonorable, maybe taking cover during a gun battle is too. You're supposed to make it hard for them to shoot you. You do that by hiding. You don 't choose to present the enemy with a great big target, in order to be "fair" to them. And you have to try to attack unexpectedly to make war.

 

[Greg Cox]

As a whole, the Klingon culture/species doesn't appear as honorable as they claim to be.

And Vulcans are not always as logical and unemotional as they claim to be.

Again, in real life, there's usually a gap between a culture's highest ideals and their actual behavior, especially in matters of war and politics. Trying to reconcile principles and pragmatism is a balancing act every sentient species has to cope with.

 

[TwoJakes]

Blinds, camouflage, and decoys don't let you walk up to someone and shiv them in the liver.

Camoflage can, dress in civilian clothing and use the tip of your umbrella to stab a poison pellet into your target. You disappear into the crowd.

Decoys can as well, get your opponent to concentrate where you aren't. Decoys can be in the form of false intelligence.

Cloaking devices are tools of cowards, thieves, and assassins.

No, they are tactical tools. Submariners are hardly cowards. Soldiers who attack out of the darkness are hardly thieves. Attacking during a snowstorm, or a sandstorm, doesn't make you a assassian.

 

[Greg Cox]

You know, a truly "honorable" enemy would have warned the Axis in advance instead of launching a surprise attack on Normandy.

And how about that George Washington character launching a sneak attack on the Hessians on Christmas Day no less! Had he no honor at all?