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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
- Thread starter Richard Baker
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Agenda? Like what agenda are you so concerned about? It's not like not Star Wars is going to go to some Ultra Gay Bath House and watch two guys pound each other. Hell, Star Wars barely had anything between a man and a woman.
Of course, I guess, it could be accused of pushing the incest agenda... Luke and Leia did have a pretty HAWT kiss.
Not so family friendly, I guess.
Anyway...
I've never understood the notion that parents are hopelessly outmatched by whatever comes out of the big shiny box in the living room. We are parents, and our kids look to us for an example. Entertainment can be influential, and we need to help protect our kids from things that could harm them, but in the end WE have the job of raising them, the job of helping them understand what they see and take in, the job of giving them a framework on which to build their perception of reality.
Acting as if Hollywood needs to make sure everything is perfect and wonderful and amazingly safe for our kids is silly. We have a job, we need to do that job.
Acting as if Hollywood needs to make sure everything is perfect and wonderful and amazingly safe for our kids is silly. We have a job, we need to do that job.
I would be more concerned about violence on TV than seeing two men or two women in a loving relationship.
Of course, in the late 60s, I'm sure people accused of Star Trek pushing an agenda: that kiss between Uhura and Kirk. Some stations didn't even air the episode. Are we talking about that agenda free Star Trek? Or did Star Trek ALWAYS have an agenda?
Food for thought.
Of course, in the late 60s, I'm sure people accused of Star Trek pushing an agenda: that kiss between Uhura and Kirk. Some stations didn't even air the episode. Are we talking about that agenda free Star Trek? Or did Star Trek ALWAYS have an agenda?
Food for thought.
I am always reminded of a comment made by a DS9 producer in the DS9 Companion after the episode where Jadzia kissed another woman. The producers manned the phone lines about the complaints and one guy gave out saying he didn't want his children to see two women kissing as it was a bad influence on them. The producer asked if he preferred if his children saw one woman blow the other woman's head off with a phaser and the guy replied "yes".
The producer suggested he may want to review what he considered bad influences on his children.
The producer suggested he may want to review what he considered bad influences on his children.
My 3-year son is VERY disturbed by television violence, and we can't watch anything that has more than some fisticuffs when he is awake. Interestingly enough, films with a PG-13 rating seem to have larger amounts of violence and smaller amounts of nudity/sexual content than they did a decade or two ago.
People seem to forget that the original STAR TREK was intended to be an adult science-fiction drama, not a family-friendly, kids show. It was even billed as that when NBC promoted it before the premier episode.
This. This so much. Also any other subject matter deemed taboo by some so-appointed watchdog group.
It astonishes me that people want a show that was originally intended to challenge social mores and ethics to be milquetoast and safe. Well, except for the pew pew and the violence.
Or the attempted rape of Janice Rand by "evil" Kirk.
Considering what eventually happened to Grace Lee Whitney, I found the attempted rape of Janice Rand so disturbing that I won't watch that episode ever again.
The attempted rape of Uhura by Lars in "The Gamesters of Triskelion".
I'm not annoyed at Carlos. Who can be annoyed at him?
By the way, am I friends with Carlos? Am I friends with Jody? Yes. But that friendship extends well beyond Axanar, before Peters ever even thought of it. The three of us might chat on Facebook about the case and such, and maybe even provide a helping hand from time to time. But trust me, Carlos does his own thing when he wants to at AxaMonitor, and I do my own thing when I want to at 1701News.
I might refer to AxaMonitor, and Carlos might refer to 1701News. But that's no different than either of us referring to other news and information outlets.
I will tell you that Carlos and Jody are very calming voices in chaotic conversations, and are very good, and fair, people. When we got a version of the Axanar script leaked to us, Jody was far more nice in his review than I would've been (I thought the whole thing sucked, even at the fan-film level). Carlos has constantly been about being nice to people, and trying to hear them out — even wacko Kenneth.
I admire and respect those two guys. But not enough to develop a conspiracy. I wish I had the time.
Oh, and we have now reported on the story (I sleep all morning, lol!) ... http://1701news.com/node/1174/axanar-trial-coming-may-2017.html
I'm sorry, but how is having a gay couple in Star Trek or Star Wars not family friendly or kid friendly? I mean, the gay couples aren't going to do anything different from what straight couples would do in that ... so what is the issue?
I mean, if you're worried that it's going to turn into Corbin Fisher, then your concerns shouldn't just be about the gay sex. But the straight sex, too.
Being gay isn't just about sex, just like being straight isn't just about sex. Whatever label you apply yourself to (I believe we shouldn't really have to label ourselves), it's about who you love.
When you see a straight couple together, you're not imagining all the sex positions they could be in, do you? You don't imagine her on her back, and him on top of her, or whatever it is straight people do, right? Then why would you have to imagine it with a gay couple? Unless there's something about yourself you need to explore ...
I grew up in a very conservative (and small), Catholic town, in a family that had no love lost for gays. Even though I had two cousins who were openly gay (and my mom would limit my exposure to them, afraid they were going to molest me (they were much older than me), or that I would get the gay), I was pretty isolated from it.
Except for the nursery my mom would take my sister and I. It was the biggest one in my small town, and it was definitely the most unusual. It was a lesbian couple (this is the late 1970s, early 1980s, by the way) who had actually adopted an African-American kid. Who was the only African-American kid in my town.
I'm not even in school yet, but I knew that Janice and Lois were together, like my mom and dad (I didn't understand the sexual part of it, because who would at that age?) It didn't corrupt me. Even my conservative mother didn't prevent me from being there — it wasn't like they were having lesbian sex in front of the kids.
My nephew and niece from my little sister have known me as the "gay uncle" since they were old enough to know what's going on. They've met Miguel (from the past), and adore Karel. My sister and I have a great relationship too (she was the first person I came out to) where we actually joke about me being gay. Like, she loves to use the phrase, "That's so queer," and my response would be, "Well, that's insulting. Why would you think a gay person would like THAT?" It's fun, and we have a great time. And we can do it all in front of the kids.
Because it's normal, it's family. And the idea isn't who you love, it's the fact that you love.
Some others have talked about violence — that's really where the concern should be. I remember when Daniel Radcliffe did a nude stage performance, and parents were like, "No, you can't expose my kids to that!" Except Radcliffe wasn't exposing his junk to kids. He was doing it in a play that would require mature audiences anyway.
Yet, those same parents have no problem letting their kids see people get their heads shot off, disembowled, or whatever else they show on TV and movies these days.
Something to think about. (/off topic rant)
What! Hinman's gay? Hold the presses while I totally unbeleive everything he's said in this thread!
Seriously, well said about family. It's the most important thing in the world after all, isn't it?
What! Hinman's gay? Hold the presses while I totally unbeleive everything he's said in this thread!
Seriously, well said about family. It's the most important thing in the world after all, isn't it?
Yeah, I kept the secret about as well as Paramount adding Khan to STID, and the new Star Trek shooting in Toronto ...
I get to see people on Trek who are quite a bit like me (although I wish they were older, and curvier, and maybe a nice Jewish girl or guy would be awesome).
Why isn't my Cousin Susan allowed to see people on Trek who are like her?
PS @Ryan F did you have a question for me? I may have lost it in the shuffle. Please feel free to PM me or tag me in a post if you don't have PMs yet. Thanks!
Why isn't my Cousin Susan allowed to see people on Trek who are like her?
PS @Ryan F did you have a question for me? I may have lost it in the shuffle. Please feel free to PM me or tag me in a post if you don't have PMs yet. Thanks!
So much for conspiracies then!Yeah, I kept the secret about as well as Paramount adding Khan to STID, and the new Star Trek shooting in Toronto ...
I meant that Peters was probably annoyed with Carlos, not you. Sorry if I was unclear there.
So what do you do when you see a gay person out on the street? Or a gay couple holding hands, or god forbid-- KISSING!? Do you run away, or perhaps call the police because gays shouldn't be in any place "that's supposed to be family friendly."
If you lack the maturity as a parent to be able to explain homosexuality to your kids that's your problem. Don't make it everyone else's. And before you get started, yes, I have kids, and we taught them about being gay the first time they asked if men had to marry women. And no, my kids didn't suddenly become gay or ask to date their own genders-- but of course if they discover that's who they are when they are older I will love them just the same.
/off-toppic
Yeah, actually, cheers @jespah . What constitutes a ‘minor character’? The latest missive by his defence certainly argues the case that Garth of Izar is a secondary character, and as such he can claim the right to use him in Axanar.
Is there any legal precedent for this? How is ‘minor’ determined? Could anyone just go ahead and make a fan-film about (say) Carmen Davila from ‘Silicon Avatar’ and not fear any consequences?
Is there any legal precedent for this? How is ‘minor’ determined? Could anyone just go ahead and make a fan-film about (say) Carmen Davila from ‘Silicon Avatar’ and not fear any consequences?
Ah, thanks for the question. This may get long (sorry!)
The courts are as weird about this as they are about, well, pretty much everything in this area, it seems.
In the second defense Motion to Dismiss, the defense argued -
"courts have held that James Bond, Batman, and Godzilla are characters
protected by copyright."
They cited DC Comics v. Towle, 802 F.3d 1012, 1019 (9th Cir. 2015), which was a case wherein the Batmobile was ruled in Federal Court to be a recognizable character.protected by copyright."
Yes, the tricked-out car. Fer realz.
They then claimed the following characters were not as distinctive as the Batmobile and, therefore, not specific enough to warrant copyright protection:
- Garth of Izar - seen in a single TOS episode, Whom Gods Destroy, but also in a book
- Soval - 11 appearances plus 4 additional mentionings in ENT
- Richard Robau - captain of the USS Kelvin, with a memorable death at the start of Star Trek 2009
- John Gill - wacky Nazi-admiring historian in Patterns of Force
- Captain Robert April - seen in a single TAS episode, The Counter-Clock Incident, and one of the main subjects of a trilogy of novels coming out this summer
- Chang - scenery-chewing Klingon villain in The Undiscovered Country
- Sarek - 17 episode appearances, appeared in both currently released JJ-verse films, plus there's a canon ship named after him
I think you also have to pull Robau, April, and Chang out of this group. Robau and April are big parts of the inciting incidents in their respective film/episode appearances. April is in several books.
This leaves us with Garth and Gill. I have no problem conceding Gill as being a minor character; he is a one-off and I don't think he says anything in Patterns of Force (the character is found heavily drugged IIRC). Garth is different. I haven't rewatched the episode in years, but I recall him as a guy who was kind of the cock of the walk of the space loony bin. He put a crown on his head, wore hippy shmippy clothes and killed an Orion woman, Marta. I don't recall anything else about him but, to my mind, those are more definite characteristics than those on the Batmobile, a vehicle which has changed over the course of the last half-century as tastes, technologies, and story lines changed in that IP.
So, where is the line drawn? The courts don't really have a bright line, and they probably don't want to write one, but a guest star who appears in over 50% of his or her one appearance would, to my mind, be harder to prove to be 'minor' than, say, a walk-on or background role. E. Hamboyan has, I believe, more on-screen time than Garth, but is utterly unmemorable (sorry, Andrew MacBeth). Hamboyan says maybe one line? Maybe not even that. Compared to that, Garth has a back story.
Anyway - in the reply to the response (today's blog post), the defense only mentioned Garth. Maybe even they realized how silly it was to claim Sarek in particular was less memorable or important than Godzilla.
Thanks for asking!
Wrong. If it wasn't Star Trek then CBS/P wouldn't have a problem.
It is Trek, ergo problemo.
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