Actually, it doesn't really matter if it is "his" boat, the law of the sea makes him the Captain. Democracy doesn't work on the open seas, that's why the traditions of seafaring still exist.
Fear the Walking Dead Season 2 discussion and spoilers.
- Thread starter Morpheus 02
- Start date
Travis is the one who decided to take it upon himself to address the problem, even before the problem fully manifested itself.
So it would pretty ridiculous for him to say that.
So it would pretty ridiculous for him to say that.
And the survivors of a zombie apocalypse are really supposed to care about the "law of the sea"? Or put that above their concern for their loved ones? Or stand by why the captain condemns everyone they encounter to a likely death?
If they're on the sea, yes. That's kind of the point.
Observing the law of the sea is about keeping your crew (family) alive and safe when you're on the sea.
They're on a yacht, not a US Navy hospital ship. There is limited space and a limit to the resources aboard, which makes taking aboard every single straggler they might pass on the ocean just as irresponsible as passing them by is harsh. Harsh keeps the boat afloat.
As mentioned before, yes. Humans as a whole aren't just going to put aside thousands upon thousands of years of the social contract we've all had ingrained into our DNA. Personal property would still be a thing. People will respect that as long as you can protect it. Right now it's protected under the laws of whatever country we live in; in the zombie apocalypse, it's protected under your own ability to convince others that its yours.
And yes, that extends to things like the "law of the seas," at least as far as this goes. That ship is Strand's now. And it will remain so until there's a mutiny, pirates track them down, or some other similar incident occurs. And since it is his, his word is the only one that really matters (though he still has to be careful because of, you know, mutiny and whatnot).
Not sure what's hard to grasp about that.
In fact the only reason most of them are still on the boat at all is because he apparently has need for them. Though why that's true is a complete mystery, and one that's likely going to be lame once it's revealed.
I mean, there's lots to criticize about the show, but that really isn't one of them.
There are literally hundreds of psychology experiments and dozens of historical cases that indicate this is incorrect. The Stanford prison experiment shows that social norms can break down over the course of a weekend, for example. I would be more inclined to believe reality would be closer to Lord of the Flies.
But, see, in a world with no more rules and laws there's, well, no more rules and laws. They need to "respect the law of the sea" about as much as they need to respect the "law of not killing people."
Perhaps, but Strand is hardly being forthcoming with information about their destination nor is he being entirely "logical" when it comes to their actions. Yes, it's "his damn boat" but he also invited these people on board and needs them to some capacity or another to operate the ship. (Travis at least for repairs.)
They can strike a balance but neither side seems open to do so, Travis found a decent middle ground with towing the raft but Strand had to get his final word in and cut the totally innocent and in need of help people loose.
This I agree with and why I sided with Strand when they found the large lifeboat in Episode 1. They don't have the capacity or facilities to take on people like that all at once. The kids last week? I think they could have handled that given the predicament the kid was facing with the loony survivalist/isolationist. There's the illogicalness of taking on a large boatfull of people and then there's the decent thing to do with taking aboard a kid whose unstable father plans on killing at some point. (Taking the "Jonestown" conclusion as being the correct one.)
This week, I think taking on the lone survivor of the plane crash also would have been the more compassionate and humane thing to do, the struggling person in the raft I could see being weary on given the extent of his injuries and knowing that everyone turns no matter what; but Travis's compromise should have sufficed.
Both sides need to give a little and it seems that the passengers are giving more than Strand is.
Again, yes, "his damn boat" but he obviously cannot run it or maintain it by himself and he needs the extra hands and help.
Last week they stopped to avoid the "pirates" or whatever, yeah going to house was a bit foolish but they still needed answers and infromation.
This week, they only stopped for repairs and it was hardly illogical to scour the wreckage for gear, medicine, or anything else useful. The only "hold back" is maybe their encounter with the "pirates" due to Alicia's use of the radio and we're really only speculating on that even being a connection.
Strand obviously has other motives, and I still suspect they're not as bad or sinister as they seem, but he obviously felt he needed these people or wanted to save them for some reason so he needs to give a bit and be more open to suggestions and discussion. Travis is there diagnosing the problem with the ship's engine and working out the plan on how/if to fix it and Strand is ordering Travis around like he's a deckhand and not, at the very least, an acquaintance offering to help (do something Strand apparently cannot) so Stand's divisiveness with Travis was uncalled for.
Given the "problems" with Daniel, Strand wouldn't be too blamed for being more weary of him or wanting him off, but everyone else on some level has tried to help, offered advice, or tried to stay out of his way. (Madison a bit less so, but Strand has even taken to her to some degree.)
Strand needs to give a little, to survive even in *our* world rules and absolutes don't work as well as working as a team, outside of military situations where all parties are trained to know their place and the order of command, in the ZA (WA, or IA) we've seen working as a team works better than working under a dic(Rick)tatorship. Strand needs to learn this pretty quick.
I think Internet discussions have proven that pretty decisively.
The fact he's captain of the ship isn't in dispute. But this "law of the sea" social contract where people are not supposed to question the captain or anything he says or does (even on a yacht or sailboat) I don't think is nearly as widely known as you seem to think it is.
And even if it was, the idea that it is this ironclad thing that will last even through the end of the world isn't exactly a given, no matter how much you seem to think it is. And I certainly don't see the survivors of a zombie apocalypse being obligated to follow it. Especially when, again, their captain is someone as untrustworthy as Strand.
Exactly. Apparently it's okay for people to jettison all their compassion and humanity in the apocalypse and leave everyone they encounter to die, but respect for and total obedience to the captain of a yacht? Well that's everlasting and should not be challenged ever, dammit!
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I'm wondering what Strand has done to the characters that makes him untrustworthy? He has maps stored in a chest--with some weapons (but its the USA where nearly everyone carries automatic weapons, right?) and he didn't tell them exactly where they were going. Anything else?
We in TV viewer land automatically consider him suspicious because that is what music and camera angles have told us, but the other passengers don't have the benefit of those cues.
We in TV viewer land automatically consider him suspicious because that is what music and camera angles have told us, but the other passengers don't have the benefit of those cues.
He's just not very forthcoming. If he'd sat them down for ten seconds and said "look, I have this boat we can get to. It can hold the six or seven of us pretty well for a while and get us to a place I have in Baha that is REALLY setup. If we try to help too many people on the way though, we'll just not make it, but I do need you guys because it's a big boat to manage and there will be people in other boats that might mean us harm. We'll have to work together to get this done". Everyone would probably trust him quite a bit. Instead, they've had to drag out each little piece of information from him as if he's on some secret mission and they're only on a "need to know" basis.
Never mind the dick move of treating the guy fixing the boat like he's a hired hand that will get fired and replaced if he doesn't work faster.
Even a Captain has to have the trust of his crew, and they're respect. Tyrants never last.
Never mind the dick move of treating the guy fixing the boat like he's a hired hand that will get fired and replaced if he doesn't work faster.
Even a Captain has to have the trust of his crew, and they're respect. Tyrants never last.
As noted by others...
True. ...and contrary to anyone thinking the situation changes or is some knee-slapper if the boat turns out not to belong to Strand--clearly, he knows how to run the ship, knowing it so well that he did not just stumble his way to a dock. He has a history with the ship. He's the captain.
...oh, you mean the concerns that somehow slipped past them when--of their own free will--decided to go to his house and the boat? Strand was just as mysterious then, but when he served their interests (survival), caution was tossed out of the window.
He has not been "ruthless" to the Travis group--which should be their only concern. He saved their lives. What part of being grateful are people missing, as it seems to have shot over the heads of the Travis group, and--apparently--some viewers. Yes, talk about unrealistic.
So, I guess you can ultimately support Negan-esque lawlessness. By that, I means if one uses the ZA as the cover-all for disrespecting any law or rule that which makes Strand the captain, then it follows one would also shred any laws in favor of doing whatever you want--exactly like Negan's forced labor / protection (from himself) racket.
It seems some think the Travis group has the authority to do whatever they want.
Oh, yes.
Well, that remains to be seen--the next episode preview promises a new location, and human-on-human violence of some kind.
I think Fear had made a huge improvement in storytelling from it's first season and I think it's a lot better than TWD. I thought series should've depart from the fanwanking plotlines from the comic books and go a completely different route. Fear is what TWD should've been.
- He was perfectly healthy yet being detained by the Army in a holding facility for people who were infected or suspected of being infected, meaning he was in there for some unrelated reason.
- He had established a rapport with the guards and was bribing them for favors, yet they still considered him dangerous or troublesome enough to keep locked up.
- He taunted a man in the makeshift prison until the man challenged the guards, getting him killed, just for the sport of it.
- He left the other prisoners locked up to die, even the ones who weren't infected.
- He seemed to have some insider knowledge or insights into the government response to the outbreak. Now, this could mean nothing, as so did the pimply high school kid, but it could mean something sinister.
- He has the skills and demeanor of a con man, which, while handy in the ZA, is not the most trustworthy attribute.
- He refuses to sleep or allow anyone else the chance to operate the boat. His complete lack of respect and trust for the others is therefore reciprocated by them. His lack of sleep endangers the group. His lack of delegation indicates paranoia and poor command decisions.
- He refuses to disclose any of his plans or share anything about his decision-making process before acting.
- He cut loose a potentially useful survivor who was in a raft being towed to San Diego and already given the supplies she needed for that trip, meaning she no longer posed any additional threat or burden to him. He did this unilaterally and without warning.
- There are no identifying marks in either the house or the boat to indicate they were actually his. No pictures, no documents of ownership with his name on it, no indication of his residence there prior to the ZA. It could be nothing and it just hasn't been addressed on the show, or it could be more of his "mysterious" background.
- He treats Travis like Gilligan despite him being the only one with the technical skills to actually fix the boat, which makes him invaluable to the team.
- He lies and deceives by omission on a regular basis, is paranoid and distrustful, treats everyone like servants or irrelevancies at best, constantly gives every indication that he'll ruthlessly leave people behind without a second thought, and vaguely threatens the children of the other survivors.
- He's distrusted by Salazar, a former intelligence operative and still a pretty bad dude, who recognizes a kindred spirit and fears for his daughter's life as a result. His instincts and experience should not be discounted.
- Their destination is a fortified mansion stocked for a siege or disaster in Baja California, which just screams "cartel." Might not be and he may just be a very rich doomsday prepper, though. We'll see.
Being grateful and taking the only avenue that was available to them doesn't mean they should stop using their own judgment and completely trust in everything Strand says and does from here on out.
For all they know, Strand could be simply using them and keeping them around for trade, or as an emergency diversion while he slips away, or for defense against other groups, and the second someone gets hurt they'll get left behind. He certainly hasn't shown much concern or respect for them in any other way, so it's only natural that people would want to question his motives.
Right. Sure. Nobody knows about it. It's only been recognized by every seafaring nation on the planet for centuries. But otherwise it's totally obscure.
As I just said, it has already lasted centuries, and it will continue to last as long as the planet's surface is seventy percent water and people build floating vehicles to get across it.
Look, the yacht carries two inflatable launches. Any time the Idiot Family thinks Strand's command must be abandoned they have the option of piling into one or both launches and striking out on their own and following whatever survivor policies they feel like. Strand might agree to that. Any attempt to forcefully remove Strand from command of the boat is illegal and immoral, no matter how untrustworthy Strand is.
Even Caribbean pirates, who had democratic pecking orders, treated their captains as the final authority once they elected them. What you have here is a similar situation. The group, by default, elected Strand captain by following his lead to the boat, onto the boat, and out to sea with him at the helm. He's Captain. Period. They may not like how he runs his ship, but since they didn't bother to come up with a non-violent way to terminate his command, that's tough titty, kid. They can mutiny, they can abandon, or they can suck it up and keep following him. The option so many here seem to want the Idiots to take is the most violent - and illegal - one.
Yeah, but Rick in the other show is the asshole...
